Another gas thread.... sorta... ethanol questions.

[astronut74]

Has anyone here noticed a drop in MPH when using ethanol "laced" gasoline? Gas with ethanol just started showing up in my area in the past couple years. A few months ago, my mom was complaining about a decrease in mileage using gas with ethanol. I didn't pay any real attention to her though. I kept an eye on mileage, but never did any "scientific testing" on it.

Yesterday, I was running out of gas, to the point the engine was stumbling on acceleration. I stopped off at the nearest station ( ethanol laced )and put $5 in the tank, at that price 1 1/4 gallons gas. I traveled all of 12 miles on that gas before it started stumbling again. I used to get 17 MPH on a gallon of gas, but 12 miles on 1 1/4 gallons of gas is crazy! I realize some of this decrease could be a result of wear and tear, but I also notice a "seemed" increase in mileage using gas with out the ethanol (half a tank of gas will last me 1 1/2 weeks as opposed to one week)

So has anyone else noticed a decrease? Also, what the heck is the purpose of ethanol in the gas? I certainly am not getting an increase in performance with it...

[Rileysowner]

Ethanol does reduce mileage, there is no question about that. I have heard and read about it in more than one place.

[NotDadsW41]

+1 to lower mileage with ethanol. For years we drove from KS to NE. Whenever I was in NE I would fill up, always with E-10 because it was cheaper, before heading back to KS. Always lower mileage going back to KS. Now I live in NE, and am just stuck with lower mileage using ethanol.

[astronut74]

Thanks for confirming that.
So, is there a reason for putting it in there?
The ethanol gas around here is no cheaper than the regular gas, so I guess, I'll just have to drive around a little more to find the "good" stuff.

[SafariRob]

Astronut, here's an address that you might find useful concerning ethanol
http://www.e85fuel.com/e85101/questions.php

As you can see, it's about E85, but there is some interesting info there.

I'll look around and see what I can find out specifically about E10. As I recall, ethanol is added to gasoline to act as an octane booster and an oxygenator.

Here's another site that I've found ethanol information in:http://www.ethanol.org/news/index.php?newsid=25

[remark123]

Just another falicy from our friends in Washington... Ethanol is approximately 35% LESS efficient than gasoline. Thus if you burn it, it will always give you lower mileage. I find that the people who advocate it are usually corn growers, and they are subsidized about a dollar a gallon to make/burn it from the Feds. The amusing thing is that even if all of the corn produced in America was diverted to ethanol production, it would only help about 20% of the demand, and just think of all the angry cows and chickens who would go hungry, not to mention the humans...

[ihatemybike]

All the gas by me is 10% ethanol and has been for well over a decade, still getting 21+ mpg. Please fill your tank. That stumbling around stuff isn't good for the fuel pump and they aren't cheap to replace. It just takes proper budgeting if you don't usually have much cash (aka don't spend your gas money on other things). Also, things like road incline, temperature, and fuel sloshing will effect when it starts to stumble.

In a engine designed primarily for gas, ethanol will return lower mpg than gas, but when the engine is designed for ethanol it will almost match.

The mash left over from ethanol production is still good for livestock feed, so the animal shouldn't go hungry.

[astronut74]

In a engine designed primarily for gas, ethanol will return lower mpg than gas, but when the engine is designed for ethanol it will almost match.

While this may be true, our engines were designed to run on gas, otherwise, wouldn't they be a "flex fuel" vehicle?
I have absolutely no problem with alternate fuel sources, be it corn, garbage, hydrogen, whatever. Personally, I encourage it. What get's me is, why, if there is 10% less gas in it, why doesn't it cost less, especially when it's less efficent? Yes, I understand ethanol production cost need to be factored in to it.
Part of my confusion with the ethanol, was in the past, I thought it was something added to gas in the northern climates. When it started showing up here in Florida I was concerned it was making the engine run hotter (leaner) my spark plugs come out white, not bright white, no melting of the electrode, but the van felt weaker. I suppose that's a good thing from an emmisions standpoint, but I sure would like better gas mileage from it at least...

[GEJ]

You know all the threads about the cost of gas(yep-the ones I have started too)and unless someone can show me how to cut my gas costs by 1/2,it doesn't amount to enough for me to buy a meal at a drive-thru.I mean for gas companies,to let say, lower gas prices by ten cents and then have people line up at the pumps,just shows them how we are continuing to be so easily led.Passive public who are will to accept anything handed to them and do nothing about it except change their way of life vs creating such a stink to change the course this has taken.Free speech for the sake of venting or a rant is just what is expected.Question is when are we going to take a stand and say that is enough and put a course of action for change??.
The sad part about it is we now have the internet to connect with each other and still we allow it to continue.

Truly I am sorry to jack this thread,but I thought it needed to be said.

Btw:this post is not in any way to inflame anyone. Just another opinion.

[Jim in Indy]

In a engine designed primarily for gas, ethanol will return lower mpg than gas, but when the engine is designed for ethanol it will almost match.

Gotta differ. Ethanol produces less BTU's per pound than 'normal' gasoline, and therefore will always require additional volume of said fuel to produce the same level of (work), combustion.

10% ethanol blends are right at the ragged edge of what 'gas only' engines, fuel pumps, injectors & O2 sensors can handle, hence the 'lean stumble' in some. Pouring excessive amounts of ethanol into 'gas only' motors is also detrimental to rubber parts & other components in the fuel system.... they just ain't made for it.

E85 (85% ethanol blend) motors are equipped with higher capacity fuel pumps, injectors, wide-band O2 sensors to operate.

Ethanol produces approx 30% less BTU's per pound, so approx 30% more fuel is required to hit the same level of combustion efficiency. Remember, that an engine is designed to operate at a air/fuel ratio of approximately 16-1, (parts air to parts fuel), using straight gas. Ethanol's air/fuel ratio can sometimes be as low as 11-1, (parts air to parts fuel), it just tales more of the ethanol, (by volume), to to make the sucker run.

Ethanol has a higher octane rating, but that is a totally different animal than the schitzometic ratio required for combustion.

Before ya'll light me up, I live in a neighborhood that has a couple of IRL wrench-benders in it. I definitely listen when these guys talk.

[GEJ]

In a engine designed primarily for gas, ethanol will return lower mpg than gas, but when the engine is designed for ethanol it will almost match.

Gotta differ. Ethanol produces less BTU's per pound than 'normal' gasoline, and therefore will always require additional volume of said fuel to produce the same level of (work), combustion.

10% ethanol blends are right at the ragged edge of what 'gas only' engines, fuel pumps, injectors & O2 sensors can handle, hence the 'lean stumble' in some. Pouring excessive amounts of ethanol into 'gas only' motors is also detrimental to rubber parts & other components in the fuel system.... they just ain't made for it.

E85 (85% ethanol blend) motors are equipped with higher capacity fuel pumps, injectors, wide-band O2 sensors to operate.

Ethanol produces approx 30% less BTU's per pound, so approx 30% more fuel is required to hit the same level of combustion efficiency. Remember, that an engine is designed to operate at a air/fuel ratio of approximately 16-1, (parts air to parts fuel), using straight gas. Ethanol's air/fuel ratio can sometimes be as low as 11-1, (parts air to parts fuel), it just tales more of the ethanol, (by volume), to to make the sucker run.

Ethanol has a higher octane rating, but that is a totally different animal than the schitzometic ratio required for combustion.

Before ya'll light me up, I live in a neighborhood that has a couple of IRL wrench-benders in it. I definitely listen when these guys talk.

Jim,
Having a senior moment,do you remember the guy who ran a funny car on this fuel?.

[dunedog]

Mark Thomas: 1998 Ethanol Dodge Avenger #4

[GEJ]

Mark Thomas: 1998 Ethanol Dodge Avenger #4

Dunedog-your right about Mark Thomas.Thanks for the help and that car was a hard charger too.

[Jim in Indy]

E85 is very popular right now with the blown & turbo'd 'pump-gas' crowd out at ORP. The octane is well up there, it provides a cooling effect to the intake charge as it atomizes quite readily, but the folks are using some huge pumps, lines, and injectors to flow enough fuel.