Guaranteed automotive forum hot button!

[SafariRob]

Kind of a slow day around here, so I decided to wander around the automotive forums on the net. Actually, I did a search on Ask.com for "Chevy timing gears" and ended up with 14 pages of listings. Most entries were parts suppliers' websites, but a goodly amount were forums. If you want to start a knockdown drag out fight on most automotive forums you need only post that you are considering installing a cam timing gear drive on an engine and ask what the pros and cons are. Then stand back as all hell breaks loose. I've seen this happen before, but not with the vehemence that I found everywhere today on this topic.
The big one that the nay-sayers will invariably deliver is "crankshaft harmonics are transmitted to the valvetrain by timing gears and that's really, really bad, but a chain doesn't do this." Never have I read what these 'harmonics' are and if a chain isn't transmitting what the the crankshaft is doing onto the valvetrain, it seems to me that a chain isn't doing a very good job.
For their part, the gear yea-sayers will always point out how dead-on accurate a gear set is compared to a chain; no chain stretch and all. Not a bad reason, I suppose, but is chain stretch really an issue?
Heaven help the original poster if he should state that he's installing the gear set because he likes the noise. He'll get nailed immediately as a "poser", and worse, by the nay-sayers because that gear noise is only reserved for a roots type blower and he obviously isn't man enough to admit it and do the right thing by adding a blower. Why, he's no better than a ricer, by god!
As the arguments get more strident, I noticed that the reason we all modify our vehicles gets lost quickly. I feel that we mod our vehicles because we can and we want to personalize them. Make them more suitable for ourselves and an expression of our creativity. To this end, anything goes; if your mod includes gear noise, then so be it.

[Water Boy]

Apparently someone switched decaf for your regular coffee.


Slow huh?
I'm still waitin' for answers from weeks ago.

[astrozam]

ROFLMAO, its sad BUT very true Rob, I visit a couple different forums totally unrelated to Astro's and the way people talk to each other is pretty crazy sometimes,makes for some good laughs tho.

[Mr_Roboto]

Stress on the crank? I'd like to see the evidence of that personally, there's a little more rotational mass but not much. I'd think the best thing would be that it doesn't stretch like a chain can. I'd be more concerned with A)upsetting a knock sensor and B)spending my money elsewhere, they may be cool but at the same time there are better ways to you one's high perf $. I'd be more tempted to get an adjustable timing set personally. the funny part is I bet a lot of the people whining about the whole "ricer" thing have fairly stock cars with some flowmasters or an air intake or similar.

This is a VERY small message board, as a whole it makes a huge difference. Every one is unique, and some take a very er different stance on PC-ness and debates like this. To put it in perspective, as.com had about 3,000 members if I remember correctly; theturboforums.com or turbobuick.com have 15,000 members; Thirdgen.org has 45,000 members. I see quite a few more threads getting locked at thirdgen then at the other three put together probably. It's just a matter of the population.

[SafariRob]

So true about forum size; more active posters you have, more head butting over seemingly trivial things goes on. I've been on some large non-automotive sites where the established members just lie in wait to jump on the new poster, no matter the topic.
But this rabid put-down of those choosing to run timing gears just doesn't make sense to me. In the midst of one tirade thread against gears, an individual posted that he agreed that anyone who ran gears was a poser rice boy, but he had found the solution to getting the blower sound without the gears--he installed wide toothed pulleys on the crank, water pump, and alternator and ran a Gilmer belt like those used on blowers. In other words, he got the blower sound without 'poser rice boy' gears and never saw the hypocrisy in his thinking. Strangely enough, neither did the other anti-gear people.
But there was one ray of light in all that I read on the various forums concerning timing gears; one poster was incensed that the others couldn't tell the difference between timing gear whine and blower gear whine! I got a good laugh out of that and have filed it away for future use should I decide to run timing gears and have to put up with a loud automotive 'expert' on the topic of 'poser rice boys'.
Anyway, I'm still surprised there's a lot of ill feelings concerning this topic.

[Mr_Roboto]

My philosophy is past giving advice, it's the person's money in the end. If they want to try something more power to them. I'm more tempted to do something radical more just because someone tells me I can't do it.

[SafariRob]

Yeah, Robo, I know what you mean. I also find myself wanting to do something because some self-proclaimed expert has decided it can't/shouldn't be done. I remember when I was doing the V8 swap in my Astro, I mentioned it at the local car parts place and one of the customers snorted his disdain and said it couldn't be done. Once I told him I was doing it, he stated it shouldn't be done.

[rlsllc]

You are dead on. Many forums are full of self righteous loads. Many state opinion as fact, or just make it up as they go, or bash anyone with a different view than their own.

I tried to be on a CrownVic.net or something like that when I was building my '92 P71 clone, but was basically ran off for having an older car, installing Police car parts on a civilian model, using non-Ford parts, and worst, not having Harvard grade grammar and spelling. It sucked.
I've had limited success on a Ford truck site, and a 4-eyed Mustang site. Maybe it's a Ford thing.

I seem to do OK on the Astro sites, you guys ROCK!

[Water Boy]

If the ford people would not let you play but Astro did, maybe we at Astro need to review the papers your doctor sent over.

[Mr_Roboto]

We all know that the guy is right...........A V8 in an astro is so wrong..........but it feels so right.

[SafariRob]

If the ford people would not let you play but Astro did, maybe we at Astro need to review the papers your doctor sent over.

WB, I had to look twice to see who the author of that post was--I naturally thought it was Peter!

Rislic, an automotive forum was picky about spelling and grammar?! I didn't think that was possible; the worst spelling and grammar (along with attitudes) on the net has to be in the auto forums.
I must confess that I like to see spelling done right. Same with punctuation. I also confess that I make all the mistakes, too. But the one thing that drives me wild is 'apostrophe abuse'--that's where an apostrophe is placed before a final S when a plural is intended, not a possessive. Example: "I have two Astro's.", when it should be "I have two Astros."
But other than that, my meds usually keep me from going postal!

By the way, your posts look fine to me, Rislic.

[rlsllc]

Thanks Rob. I try not to murder the English language, but hey. As long as I can decipher the content, I don't mind if someone isn't perfect in their writing.

I also thought that post about the papers was from Peter. Good one, WB.

ps, you can call me Roy.

[6spd_monte]

...the one thing that drives me wild is 'apostrophe abuse'...

I thought I was the only one who was bothered by that! What makes it worse is when my managers at work make that mistake in memos they send out. Also, they apparently don't have spell check.
I mean, spelling/punctuation/grammar on a forum is one thing, and I'm not perfect by any stretch, but to be the service manager at a new car dealer and allow such careless errors is inexcusable in my opinion.

Ok, I'll get off my soapbox now.....

[Ali-V8famvan]

Okay I am probably going to get kicked out myself and yes' you can call me a girl but why would you put something on your vehicle that makes MORE noise? And if you want too why would anyone care if it is' done with a belt or a gear...honestly I don't understand how a belt and a gear can do the same job. Is the V8 not enough? As' it is' I can barely hear myself think. If you want attention why not just set off the alarm as' you drive. Better yet add some flashing light's. Or maybe if you really want attention you could lift it put on really big tire's and then cut one in half and make it into a trailer.











where is the pokey guy when you need him.

[SafariRob]

Ali, you've asked the same question that was brought up many times on the automotive sites I was checking out. It's a good question, too; why add something that makes more noise?
It comes down to a matter of preference, at least it does for me. When I installed the V8 in my '89, I selected a muffler that I hoped had the 'right' sound. I wanted to hear that V8 beat-- during cruising and especially when I got into the throttle. I didn't want the exhaust noise to overpower everything, though and I really didn't want the interior to resonate loudly. I got lucky with my muffler selection; it had the sound I was after with a minimum of resonance, and what little resonance the van did have was largely eliminated when I installed the catalytic converter.
So, I was going for a certain sound, you see, and I think all of us, whether we've swapped in a V8 or not, want a certain sound out of our vehicles.
Bottom line is that I like to hear feedback from operating machinery. But the feedback has to be in the right amount, like the exhaust sound described above.
Many years back, I heard a built engine that had a large cam which produced a very lumpy idle. It also had timing gears. That lumpy idle created an exhaust rhythm that was hypnotic by itself, but the whirring sound of the timing gears tracking along with that rhythm added a whole new aural dimension. At idle it certainly 'talked', but at speed the engine had an authoritative "do not mess with me" howl that was unmistakable. I was utterly impressed with it, I must admit-- that engine was alive.
So, it's all about the sound a person is after in their vehicle. But to find such strong negative reactions in automotive forums concerning this basic tenant of vehicle modifications is what really caught me off-guard.

Anyway, that's my attempt at an explanation.

Hmmm, let's see, put really big tires on a van and then haul around a chopped van as a trailer...now who on earth would do that??