Junkyard V8 rescue

GEJ · Post by **GEJ** » Wed Nov 14, 2007 10:13 pm

Hi Rob,
Been awhile since we talked.Got a question for you about your 350 Olds.Is that the same one used by Chevy for their early 350 diesels in Chevy trucks?.As far as long term storeage,I have used a product called LPS 3 that will not rust for three years.We used it for our engine parts business over the yrs and it really works.

Gary

Hey,about all these house projects,go to the nearest Lowes and tell me about what you want.I'll tell ya the best way to go to get what you need.

Mr_Roboto · Post by **Mr_Roboto** » Fri Nov 16, 2007 8:18 pm

garysgifts wrote:Hi Rob,
Been awhile since we talked.Got a question for you about your 350 Olds.Is that the same one used by Chevy for their early 350 diesels in Chevy trucks?.As far as long term storeage,I have used a product called LPS 3 that will not rust for three years.We used it for our engine parts business over the yrs and it really works.

Gary

Hey,about all these house projects,go to the nearest Lowes and tell me about what you want.I'll tell ya the best way to go to get what you need.

It is the same foot print but the olds diesel 350 is FAR different than the old s gas 350. The Diesel webbing is very thick, unlike the windowed blocks that were used by later Olds motors, they'll even take 4 bolt billet caps. They also take a killer over bore, and have the large main journals. It's common to take a 425 crank and use that to stroke the block, you can safely get around 440 CID from what I've heard. If any of you guys are into building one up, I know a dude that has 2 or 3 he'd be willing to sell. They are a specialized motors but I like to see the BOP motors being built up; IMO the death of the BOP engines is one of the ways GM went wrong. They made money because of efficiency but lost their R&D and the individuality that the marques once posessed.

GEJ · Post by **GEJ** » Fri Nov 16, 2007 10:04 pm

Mr_Roboto reminded me of a guy I knew who had a 442.Billy worked at a GM plant and built his own induction system for N.O.S. from the machine shop there.The engine was a Olds 455.The 442 is a very heavy car and I did in fact see it run low 9's at NY raceway park with it wheel standing.Bill's system for N.O.S. dumped so much into it and the fact the car's wt was so much, it twisted the crank and broke the center bearing carriers in the 455 block.His answer to this was to go to the Olds version of the Monza and to use a 350 Olds diesel block converted to gas.I now remember him telling me why he did use the diesel block and it was because of the main web being so much thicker and a stronger part.Billy was always known for what he knew about the Olds and him being able to get so much out of them.

Mr_Roboto · Post by **Mr_Roboto** » Sat Nov 17, 2007 12:21 pm

Supposedly in the day Mondello was the guy for olds power, but at the same time I've heard he's pretty much gotten out and the guy he has running his shop is overall without a clue. There's another couple big names in Olds motors these days, but I'd probably have to dig some to find them.

SafariRob · Post by **SafariRob** » Sat Nov 17, 2007 5:19 pm

Sorry, guys, this thread never got marked as having new additions, so I didn't know there was any activity here.
Concerning the Chevy 350: I wasn't in this morning, but Betty got a call from the machine shop. She tells me that the engine and parts have all been cleaned. I asked her if they said anything about the condition of the engine--whether it was rebuildable or not. Appears nothing was said about that; I'll have to call them come Monday. This is the same shop that I turned the 305 over to for rebuilding, but I'm not about to have history repeat itself. There definitely won't be any $750 NAPA overhaul kits for this Chevy smallblock like I got stung with on the 305. I intend to farm out the individual engine components to the shops I feel best about concerning their abilities.
And that, from my original experience, is the toughest part concerning an engine rebuild--figuring out which automotive machine shop can do the best job on a given engine part. There's several machine shops around here and I've been talking to the dirt track and drag racers on where they get their work done. It's been enlightening; one shop that I thought was top notch turns out to have an employee with a drug problem--and it shows up in the quality of the work done. Another shop recently changed hands; it's being reported that cost is up and quality is down. All of this could be just BS from a never happy customer, of course, but I especially want to hear the horror stories and sort through them myself. So the Chevy 350 project is best stated as "all ahead, slow" at this point.

The Olds 350 will have to be patient. That one will take some bucks to bring together. But I'd love to see it run again, if only because it's not a Chevy V8 engine.

GEJ · Post by **GEJ** » Sun Nov 18, 2007 3:31 am

Rob,
Because we haven talked lately I wanted to give you a update on my project.I did buy a donor 350 powered Astro for my Ole Yellar van.Should make the conversion using the total V8 sub frame,computer,tranny,wiring harness into my van much easier.The V8 tranny needs a rebuild,but that's ok because it will give me a chance to put in all the good parts.Reseal the engine and a cam,maybe a set of heads and I will be good to go.

astrozam · Post by **astrozam** » Sun Nov 18, 2007 9:00 am

Rob,its possible that with us being on a new server that you will have to re-check the notify button (not 100% on that but hey)have a look and see

Mr_Roboto · Post by **Mr_Roboto** » Sun Nov 18, 2007 9:45 am

Everyone rebuilds chevies. They're a dime a dozen. Find a shop that does a good job on them, preferably with a guy that's older so he has some experience on oldsmobiles. While I havn't read it, Mondello had a book out it's GM PN 12480027. I'd reccomend finding a board specificly for Rocket motors as well, I think http://www.realoldspower.com was one I've been to in the last eons.

NotDadsW41 · Post by **NotDadsW41** » Sun Nov 18, 2007 4:57 pm

Hey Rob!

I think you mis-understood my comment earlier. I meant to rebuild the Olds 350 and put that in the Delta!

The TBI would be nice of course. But keep the Olds all Olds!

SafariRob · Post by **SafariRob** » Sun Nov 18, 2007 5:55 pm

CD, I did misunderstand at first, and I would prefer to have that Olds 350 I own powering the Delta, but the cost of getting the Olds engine rebuilt is stopping me right now. I'm still working on house project$, so the Chevy 350 is easier on the bucks to rebuild. But I haven't given up on the Olds 350. And you're right, that Olds engine would be nice if I grafted a TBI onto it.

Gary, glad to hear that you got a donor--that'll sure make the swap easier. Did I read correctly that you are considering a cam profile change when you rebuild the engine? If so, be very, very careful; the wrong cam can sure throw the ECM for a loop and believe me, this is experience doing the talking. On the Chevy 350 I'm rebuilding, I intend to keep the engine stock--cam profile, compression ratio, heads, intake, exhaust--whatever GM thought was right for its TBI EFI is what the engine will get rebuilt with. I'm not quite ready to get into PROM tuning yet, but I sure do want an engine that's well behaved and I think the stock form is the answer.

Thanks for the info about the new board, Zam.

Mr_Roboto · Post by **Mr_Roboto** » Sun Nov 18, 2007 11:40 pm

They are pretty tolerant of changes, if you want to get an easy quick n' dirty cam change go get a TPI cam and a 9C1 Caprice chip/ECU with cop car injectors; just like GM made em :P

SafariRob · Post by **SafariRob** » Mon Nov 19, 2007 3:19 pm

Mr_Roboto wrote:They are pretty tolerant of changes...

Robo, you never met my 305, lol. The cam and the ECM fought and their war made the engine run terribly.

Mr_Roboto wrote:...if you want to get an easy quick n' dirty cam change go get a TPI cam and a 9C1 Caprice chip/ECU with cop car injectors; just like GM made em :P

I'd have to know the heads and intake manifold part number and what the static compression ratio was before I'd even consider it.
Thanks for the suggestions, but that 350 will be stock in the areas where it's critical for the ECM--I don't want to deal with another drama queen of an engine that requires constant tinkering.

GEJ · Post by **GEJ** » Wed Nov 21, 2007 4:02 am

Rob,
I'm going to pattern my 350 somewhat after Lockdoc's 92 Astro engine.I am alittle confused by you comments about your problems with a chip burn.I thought it took some different number of trys to get that right,but you could resolve that without consent tinkering.That is because maybe I wasn't around when you did your 305.Could you give me more backround about that?.

Gary

SafariRob · Post by **SafariRob** » Fri Nov 23, 2007 7:30 am

Gary, I should learn to preface my comments on engine modification with the statement that I have become extremely cynical concerning value for money spent versus actual results obtained. I think it's the legacy of my 305.
I've never had a custom chip burned for my 305; I contacted TBI Chips for one, made and sent the data file that was requested, and never heard from him again. I sent a follow up email, but that went unanswered.
You are no doubt right in saying that there are people out there who can burn a custom chip and get it dialed in within a few attempts. But I have to wonder just what is lost in the trade; low end torque, streetability, fuel economy? There's always a trade off and it's a matter of what a person wants, I know.
So, it's my cynicism speaking when I say to be very careful when selecting a camshaft for an engine that'll be EFI--you might end up with an engine that's more of a pain than a pleasure.
Just my 2 cents worth.

GEJ · Post by **GEJ** » Sat Nov 24, 2007 6:02 pm

Rob,
That is a reply that is about as "Real Street" as anyone could write.

Thanks for that and keeping me grounded,

Gary

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Junkyard V8 rescue