Dafrogtoad's engine thread

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This thread has been transferred over from A.S

Dafrogtoads engine article

Forum: V8 SWAP
Topic: Engine questions
started by: Dafrogtoad

Posted by Dafrogtoad on May 06 2006,2:06
hello,
I have finally saved enough to get my builder to start my 350. Now is the time for all the questions!
My van's a '94 2WD
I want to use it for work (carrying about 200lbs of tools all the time)
I want to be able to tow my boat (2500lbs)
I of course want to get all the HP I can, but I can't afford to kill myself gaswise, and I don't really have the ability to PROM burn.
So. I have a post-86 4 bolt block, and that's where I'm at.
Without getting too weird, can I get some suggestions/opinions, on heads, cams, intakes, TBI sizes/types and anything else I have not thought of?
BTW, does anyone have a phone number for Racecrafters? I'm not getting any return on emails.
Thanks

Posted by BLAZER on May 06 2006,8:29
What direction are you planning on going with this motor i.e fuel injection or carbed?
Here's my suggestions...( I've built motor for my 87 K5 FI blazer and couple of older carbed camaros so I have a little of both worlds.)
Fuel injection.....if you decide to go this way, you will obviously need an injection setup of some sort. You will need new heads either way, great value is a set of vortecs, either aftermarket ( you can pick up a set of completes for around 600) or find some factories in the boneyard. You either need a factory FI setup or aftermarket which can be $$$$$. Also since you have the 94 "W" now, your best bet would be to get a TBI set up from a 94-95 fullsize truck or van with wiring and computer, that would be a fairly easy swap plus you can get chips burnt for these farily easily. I would rebuild the motor using maybe 8.5-9.0 pistons, get a good computer cam designed for lower end power. I wouldn't look at your goal for high end horsepower, look more for low end torgue and good midrange, doesn't sound like you're going to be dragging this van, you need towing power. Also, that would be a good gas mileage set up. I used an Eldebrock Performer cam designed for the computer and wasn't thrilled with it. I think my problem was the 305 heads used on the 350 block. I know Crane and Comp Cams both make decent cams for computer motors, I personally like the Crane Cams. Also remember if you're going with fuel injection, you need a computer to control your tranny which either you will need stand alone...$7-800, or again, stick with a the 94-95 truck TBI/wiring/ECM and that will cover that base for ya.
If you happen to decide carb, again, go with 8.5-9.0 pistons, get a good set of heads, I still recommend some vortecs and get a vortec Eldebrock intake with either a 600 performer carb or the newer Holley Avenger 670 and slap in a good cam that goes from about 1200-5000 rpms or maybe grab an RV cam. You would also need the stand alone computer for the tranny or find a 700r and wire a lock up switch.
These are just my opinions. I'm looking at getting a 96 votrec motor from a truck and doing the swap in my 95. I have an older carbed motor in the garage, but I want to keep the fuel injection due to the tranny issues and I can get the ECU reprogrammed to fit my build, needs plus it gets good gas mileage.
Good luck and keep us posted.

Posted by Dafrogtoad on May 06 2006,2:01
I would be driving the van everyday. You are correct in assumin gI don't want a dragster. I just want a well built daily hauler that I can also drive cross country. I really don't want to step too far away from what would be considered a well beefed, but not radical setup for say, a G-20 van. Just in a smaller package.
I have TBI stock, and think that setup is fine. I understand a tranny beefup (transgo) will solve any tranny issues. I have a 350 aluminum intake, again stock from a same year truck, was hoping to use that. Where i started getting concerned was when I started reading about differant injectors, TBIs, and cams. What I don't want to do is end up OVER building beyond the capabilities of the stock computer, but I DO wish to get all I can from it.
So, if I use a bone stock TBI setup from a same year truck/van, I'll get a certain level of preformancs. The I start reading about 454 injectors, holley BIG CFM tbi's rv (or other) cams.. starts getting a bit confusing.
I guess the questions is, how far should I go before I start getting too weird for the stock computer to handle it?
BTW, still hoping for a Racecrafters contsct..I need to get my manual!
Thanks

Posted by someone on May 06 2006,3:10
there was one for sale a while ago... try this guy

< racecraft manual for sale >

Posted by Dafrogtoad on May 06 2006,3:29
Thanks, I contacted that person, but I still will want to make conact with Racecraft...mounts and all...most likely a kit.

Posted by Mr_Roboto on May 06 2006,6:04
I'd look for a gm made "performance" cam good options are the HT383 cam, the ZZ3/4 cam, and the stock LT-1 cam albeit it needs a pin ground off of it. I'd probably want to ditch the stock TBI intake, but for torque it's hard to beat. The guy at http://www.tbichips.com will cut you a chip based on what your combo is, he has a list of reccomended parts on his site.

Posted by Dafrogtoad on May 06 2006,9:59
Ok, that's a start..what I guess I'm trying to ask is, how much can you build (HP-wise) a stock TBI setup before you have to get into prom-tuning?

Posted by WHEELER on May 06 2006,11:06
i also tried to buy a manual from racecraft, like you, i got no response to my email. and if you look at their site, it seems as if they are going out of business. everything they have for sale, is for awd and sold at closeout. i finally went to STEALTH.
i got the mounts in two days (look excellent) then i went back for thier manual, which i expect monday
everything was a lot less expensive tha racecraft..

Posted by V8famvan on May 06 2006,11:17
Dave, It sounds like you are doing your homework. Always a sign that the project has a chance of succeeding.
Just so we are all on the same page & to summarize,
You have a '94 van with a code 'Z' eng (TBI).
You want maximum 'towing' power & fuel economy.
You have a post '86 block, but no heads.
You are on the fence about a performance PROM.
You are a little unsure about the injectors & cam.

One question about your block, Is it a roller block? If it is, good power/performance gains can be realized with a good roller cam.

The easiest route to go with the conversion on you van is to go with the pre-vortec heads. They will allow you to use the aluminum intake manifold you have, but they are a poor performance head.

The vortec heads are vastly superior, but won't fit your intake manifold because the angles are different.

Sounds like the TBI is what you are going to use. The CFM rate is the same for the V8 & V6 throttle bodies so for ease of installation & connection, use the V6 t/b. (wiring & linkage will connect up) Swapping the injectors to a set of (350) V8 one is a must. Going with bigger ones won't really increase your performance if your engine can't process it. There is some improvements that can be done to the t/b for increased flow/performance.

Once you figure out what heads / intake manifold combination you are going to go with, phone the tech line of some cam manufacturers & tell them what you are running & what you want from it. Compile / compare those specs to each other to confirm the same specs. If they match up choose one. (They are the professionals)

Lastly I would suggest getting a performance PROM. You can get these from various suppliers & they will customize them to your application.

Keep digging up the information, ask questions until you are comfortable & it should all work out for you.

Posted by Dafrogtoad on May 07 2006,3:43
Thanks..yes, I have been trying to do my homework, but it seems there's always more..

"You have a '94 van with a code 'Z' eng (TBI).
You want maximum 'towing' power & fuel economy.
You have a post '86 block, but no heads.
You are on the fence about a performance PROM.
You are a little unsure about the injectors & cam."

Right. all true. Not a roller block, a 4 bolt non-roller. The rotating assembly will be done by a great builder we have locally. Sticking to all stock replacements. Unless, of course. Someone here can give me a reason to change my mind about that.
I have an aluminum intake, but not married to the thing.
Are all vortex heads aluminum? Are they all the same comp ratio? Any problems using my stock accessories? Any year heads reccomended, or to be avoided?
IF the CFM is the same for the 4.3 as the 5.7, what is it?
Are the vortec heads just made to burn better? Will they work at their best with my TBI and stock 350 injectors?
Will my cruise control and other accessories related to the intake area be effected by switching to vortec?
And on a last note..IS Racecrafters going away? Does anyone know for SURE? If so, is anyone else making the kits Racecrafters was?
IF I have to get a performance prom...well. then I'm probably just going to take a desired HP, and a desired MPG, and build the van to that..
Something like 15/17 MPG, and at least 230 HP too much to ask? more?..I wonder what's realistic w/tbi?
(I drive VERY conservatively, I get 19 w/cruddy running loaded 4.3 now)

Wheeler...what did you mean by stealth? I am basing a lot of this swap on Racecraft parts...getting a bit worried with this "racecrafter closed" talk..

Whew!
Thanks in advance for ther patience shown here..

Posted by ssfari on May 07 2006,5:28
Sell your block and goto GMPP and buy what ever performance level you want. Do go with the Vortech heads, they are worth every penny for performance. I use a carb but just my choice, many options for EFI. You can buy a stock 350 long block from GM and get a warrenty nationwide with it. Good luck.

Posted by ssfari on May 07 2006,5:33
Whats a "roller block". The term roller has to do with the rockers in the head which have no relationship to a block except that sit on top of a block.

Posted by Dafrogtoad on May 07 2006,1:07
I was reffering to the lack of roller lifters,sorry. I had to choose between roller lifters and 4 bolt. Could not get both.
Hope I chose right.

Posted by SafariRob on May 07 2006,1:46
Froggy, I wouldn't worry too much if you can't get stuff from Racecraft, I think most of us around here did our swaps with what we found elsewhere. Not putting Racecraft down at all because their swap manual really helped me out when I did my van's swap.
You can make your own engine mount adapters; the drawings are pinned up in the engine swap section, I believe. I made the ones for my swap for a total cost of around $25. Most of that cost was having a pro do the welding. However, it does take a lot of time cutting out the parts from the metal stock and filing the slots.
Keep doing your swap investigation--the time you take doing that will save you time and money later. But be aware, at least from my experience, that the swap will take more time and money than you initially think. Don't let that disuade you though; the first time you light that V8 and hear its rumble after it's in your van you'll be glad you did.

Posted by Dafrogtoad on May 07 2006,2:18
Well, the manual was the biggie, but a lister here sold me one. I was hoping to get the towing kit from Racecrafters..ahhh well. Just going to be a BUNCH MORE questions here I guess
Now I have to think about how to get the best out of the stock TBI setup..that's really where I'm at, as the engine itself is now being built...I'll worry about installation and accessories later. Seems from what I read here, and what I see in my van, that stuff's not hard, just time and money consuming.
lets see..vortev heads. vortec intake..and I'm still listening!

Posted by BLAZER on May 07 2006,9:32
Quote (ssfari @ May 07 2006,4:33)
Whats a "roller block". The term roller has to do with the rockers in the head which have no relationship to a block except that sit on top of a block.

Roller block refers to a stock motor that came with roller lifters in the block directly onthe cam, not roller rocker arms which sit in the heads.
I was considering buying a racecraft book too, but with all the knowledge out here for free.....

Posted by V8famvan on May 07 2006,11:01
Dave, You are right about the homework, never stop asking how / why.
You had the option of a 4 bolt main over a roller block? I would have gone with the roller block. 4 bolt mains are stronger, yes, but not neccesary for the power you are planning for. A 2 bolt would have sufficed.

For ssfari, (& anyone else) here is a pic of my spare roller block. (with 4 bolt mains) The roller block can be identified by the 3 bolt bosses in the center of the valley.


Engine pic
http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e260/ ... ine005.jpg


As seen in the below pic, not all vortec heads are aluminum. (Vortec is on the left - pre vortec on the right) The bolt pattern on the end of the heads are the same so all the front accessories will bolt on. You can also see (slightly) the difference in intake manifold angle.
http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e260/ ... ine002.jpg


From this next pic, you can see that there is no exhaust passageway to the intake manifold so you will have either no egr valve or you have to use a exterior pipe. If you also notice, there are only 4 bolts (per head) for the intake manifold to be bolted down. These bolts also come down vertically. This is much different than the old style heads.
http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e260/ ... ine004.jpg


The CFM ratings on the throttle bodies are in around 465 - 500. An easy power addition is a spacer. Fuel economy is improved with this also.

BTW: As you see, I do have the makings of a vortec motor & am looking into installing my TBI onto it so I am interested to see how this plays out.

Hmmm...don't some non-roller have those bosses? Just not drilled for roller? IF so, is ther any other differance? I mean, can you drill those out during machining to get roller?
AHA! So some vortecs are steel..can you tell me what years are? No egr? sounds like prom tuning..if I have to "run a tube" how and where? Please explain that.
500 cfm? hmmm Now I have a number! Thanks

Posted by Mr_Roboto on May 08 2006,10:13
The vortecs are on 96-2002 350 pickups. The external EGR gets exhaust gas from a spot in the manifold then pipes it back up to be fed into the intake.

Posted by Dafrogtoad on May 08 2006,10:35
Thanks Roboto.these truck manifolds are the ones we use for swaps?

Posted by Mr_Roboto on May 08 2006,3:26
Yes, you can use truck manifolds, or you can use headers; if you wanted EGR you'd just have to drill a hole and weld in a spot for the EGR tube to go, albeit I'd wanna check with emissions people where you are.

Posted by Dafrogtoad on May 09 2006,2:36
well, headers are pricey...are they worth it? I know in most applications they are, but here? I plan on sticking to the stock exhaust for now, perhaps going with a larger diameter or duals later..Opinions?

Posted by Mr_Roboto on May 10 2006,6:56
My shorty headers were about $125-150, but it will probably be money well spent dependent on the manifold you use. Desktop Dyno was saying I"d pick up ~30 hp, and if you read the GM "goodwrench quest" article (google it) they picked up over 50 ft-lbs of torque and almost 20 hp from a set of long tubes. Even on a stock engine it's one of the best performance mods you can make dollar for dollar. They can also increase fuel milage as well.

Posted by Dafrogtoad on May 11 2006,7:55
did you adapt these headers for vortec EGR? Can they be? Could you pass on the part number please? Sounds like the thing to have

Posted by Mr_Roboto on May 11 2006,8:20
Quote (Dafrogtoad @ May 11 2006,2:55)
did you adapt these headers for vortec EGR? Can they be? Could you pass on the part number please? Sounds like the thing to have

that will vary from state to state, for instance in california you need headers with a CARB number on them. You should talk with someone in your area who does the emissions work, it depends on wether or not it has to be "there" "functional" or "stock". Adding the tube should be simple enough, you'd just have to add a bung to your header for the EGR tube. The steel tube that's sticking into the exhaust manifold in the pic is the stocker.

http://users.apex2000.net/whardie/newegr.jpg


If you are looking at vortec heads, do some research regarding part numbers and casting numbers. In researching these heads for my 383 project, I have found that there are two CASTING numbers for vortecs but multiple different PART numbers. Some heads have something different about the exhaust valve/seat/port that reduces exhaust flow and is not great for performance. But it depends on the PART number not the CASTING number. So if you're buying used heads (like I did) the only way to know if you have the less desireable port is to know the part number of the head, which can only be determined by knowing the original application of the head because part numbers are not on the head anywhere, only the casting numbers are on them. Unfortunatley I didn't find this out until after I had bought my used heads so I don't yet know what exhaust port I have. If I were to do it over again I would just buy new ones, and I still might do that and if I do I don't know what I'll do with these used mystery heads.
Anyway, start your vortec research by reading < this >
About half way down the page there is a good article to start you off.

Posted by Dafrogtoad on May 18 2006,3:28
WOW Good article! I think that gets me where I want to be for heads. Now I have to wonder about the headers. Are there headers for sale that have the bung for the EGR? I was thinking about staying w/truck manifolds..but in for a penny..

Posted by 89fivespeed on May 18 2006,4:04
I'm a little confused by this talk of aluminum vortec heads. Aren't aluminum vortec heads in fact LT1 heads?

Posted by Dafrogtoad on May 21 2006,1:24
The article mentioned above will, I think, answer that question. So much info in one place. A great article.
I am, however, still wondering about headers w/bung for EGR. Do they exist? Or will I have no choice but to fabricate or go stock?

Posted by The Rebel on June 06 2006,4:15
If you haven't gotten your adapters yet,,let me know,,there's an old member who has a set. Talked with him last week and he still has them. Just let me know and I'll pass the info on to ya.

Posted by The Rebel on June 06 2006,4:15
If you haven't gotten your adapters yet,,let me know,,there's an old member who has a set. Talked with him last week and he still has them. Just let me know and I'll pass the info on to ya.
Better PM me if ya want his e-mail address.

Posted by Dafrogtoad on June 23 2006,12:19
Which adapters? I've been on vacation..

Posted by The Rebel on June 23 2006,11:59
Quote
Which adapters? I've been on vacation..


V-8 conversion. Motor mount.
Also has a set of headers still in the box.

Posted by Dafrogtoad on June 25 2006,1:21
Racecrafters mounts and headers? How much including shipping over to Slidell La?

Thanks

Posted by Dafrogtoad on June 30 2006,1:43
Hoping to hear about those mounts and header....

Posted by Dafrogtoad on Aug. 24 2006,9:30
Hello all.
Just got the engine internals from Summit racing. I'm going to take them over to the builder as soon as the backordered cam comes in.
Thanks for all the help so far, this is going to happen!
I'm still wondering if the mounts and headers Rebel mentioned are available. I'm collecting ALL the parts I need and getting ready to pull the van off the road for the swap.
I'd also like to know if there are any headers available with the egr bung. I have seen a Headman header mentioned a LOT on this list, but when I go look for it, it seems to NOT have the bung. As I was going to go with a ceramic coated header, I think welding on on might not be an option..anyone done that?
As far as the 4-bolt main choice. I went with it instead of the roller because I need to tow a LOT (yes there WILL be a LOT of cooling questions on here later, still doing homework)
I decided to go with a roller lifter and rocker setup. Hope that will give me the best of both worlds.
I'll post a complete list of what's going in the engine later. Pics to follow.
Thanks again all.

Posted by The Rebel on Aug. 24 2006,9:48
Sorry,,I just caught up on this post. I'll check and see if he still has the adapters and headers and PM ya his e-mail address.

Posted by The Rebel on Aug. 24 2006,9:58
Just PM'd ya Allen's e-mail address. PM me if this doesn't work. I have another e-mail address and his cell number.
He also has a new motor stand and no glass slider. I bought his Stillen bumper cover. Nice guy. There were pics in For Sale. You might find them doing a search but don't know after the crash.
Good luck.

Posted by Rockwerx on Aug. 24 2006,10:27
Which injection system are you going to use? Roller cams are better than the old hydraulic lifter cams. I see that is what you are going to run. What cam are you going to install?



Posted by Dafrogtoad on Aug. 24 2006,10:53
From Summit Racing..

COMP Cams Magnum Hydraulic Roller Camshafts
Camshaft, Hydraulic Roller Tappet, Advertised Duration 260/ 260, Lift .500/ .500, Chevy, Small Block.

The cam was suggested by my builder. Hope it works ok!
I'm planning to stay with the stock injector system with 350 injectors.

Planning..learning..changing mind, planning more...fun!!

Posted by The Rebel on Aug. 25 2006,1:11
Were you able to get in touch with Alan on the adapters and headers ?

Posted by Dafrogtoad on Aug. 26 2006,12:53
Yes, Thank you very much. Looks like I'll be able to get the mounts and headers from him soon.
I have been looking at this site a lot, and really have not seen anyone address the problem of welding a bung into the headman headers to accept the egr. Guess I'll just have to DO it and see....
I'm now waiting on a backordered cam. a few weeks after it arrives, I should have an engine sitting here for transplant

CAN'T WAIT!!!

Oh, perhaps a silly question, but is it ok to have the transgo kit installed well before I do the swap? It would be a lot easier to NOT have to tow the van after the trans is done, but the swap is not. I know I'll have to swap the tourque converter, but i would like to take the van in, have the kit installed, drive the van home, (maybe drive it for a while) THEN do the swap and install the new TC. Any trouble with that?

Dave

Posted by Rockwerx on Aug. 26 2006,3:46
Go for it. It won't hurt to get a few miles on the trany before your swap.

Posted by SafariRob on Aug. 26 2006,8:00
Quote (Dafrogtoad @ Aug. 24 2006,5:53)
Planning..learning..changing mind, planning more...fun!!

Isn't that the truth--it's why my van will never be finished (don't tell my wife I said that). But I think there should be something in your line about spending money.
Y'know, I think both Summit and Jeg's should at least send me a Christmas card this year; I've sure been doing my part to keep their lights lit.

Posted by Dafrogtoad on Aug. 26 2006,10:56
Point taken Rob....I dropped $1700 clams there last week. Could have easily been more.
Quite a place summit is. I was able to visit the Ohio showroom on a biz trip and get my parts....man what a place. drool....

Posted by The Rebel on Aug. 27 2006,8:01
Quote
Yes, Thank you very much. Looks like I'll be able to get the mounts and headers from him soon.


Glad it worked out for ya. Looking forward to pics of the swap.

Posted by Dafrogtoad on Aug. 27 2006,9:30
I'll have a LOT of pics to post. Just waiting for that frappin' cam......getting impatient!!!

Posted by 91AWDAstro on Aug. 27 2006,9:35
good luck on your project. Just a couple of things if your sticking with stock TBI, Holley makes a nice bolt on replacement that is 670 cfm. I had my intake machined for the larger 2" bores, but they give you an adapter plate with it. I bought the comp cams compu cam and so far it seems like a nice cam. I just broke mine in and will take it for a drive this week. Also I went with headers and had them coated by JetHot. If you go headers I highly recomend their service.

Posted by Dafrogtoad on Aug. 28 2006,2:45
I think I saw that holley at Summit. I have the edelbrock preformer tbi intake waiting to go on. Will that holley bolt up w/o any adapters?
As far as the headers go..well I'm hearinmg bad things about the headmans, but it's what I have, and I still have to deal w/ a lot of exhaust questions.
1) Bung for egr?
2) same for 02 sensor..
After (if) I modify the headmans for these, I'll be looking into SOME kind of heat treatment afterward

Posted by Dafrogtoad on Sep. 02 2006,12:38
Wow, glad to be back...I was asking questions about the distributor needed for this swap, as well as the trans. questions...everyone back yet? I'll be looking on both lists until this gets straightened out.
Thanks again

Posted by canadavan on Sep. 03 2006,12:27
you don't need to weld an o2 sensor bung into the headers. Put the bung in just before the muffler(s). I haven't had any problems with my hedmans.

Posted by Dafrogtoad on Sep. 03 2006,1:55
(cross post from the backup list)

Man, 4X4 what a call!! I do indeed have the Edelbrock EDL-2116 and need an adapter.
Now, which one is reccomended? and will this effect my plans to put on a Swirl-Torque TBI Spacer? Am I letting this get a bit too tall here?
Also, the description does not mention the EGR tube. I'm assuming at this point that I'm going to have to place a bung in one of the headers..correct?
Thanks

Posted by Dafrogtoad on Sep. 03 2006,1:59
Canadavan. I was asking about the EGR. On the vortec, it seems to be a tube going to the exhaust. I'm flying a little blind here, but will I need to deal with this, or will my stock 4.3 TBI (with 350 inj.) simply hook up.

Sorry to sound stupid, but I'm trying to iron out all the details I can here while my engine itself is being built. I want as few suprises as I can get during the install.

Thanks

Posted by Dafrogtoad on Sep. 03 2006,2:02
hmmmm..this has got me to thinking..is this adapter going to cause me trouble with installing any of the other items that install on top of the engine? In the area of the TBI? Cables, throttle, cruise control etc?....
(fear sets in this late at night)

Posted by Astro4X4 on Sep. 03 2006,3:17
The manifold is not EGR ready, so you can't run EGR on it. Why do you want EGR anyway? E-test? Not sure on the adapter, you'll have to search the web. With the adapter on there, I wouldn't bother with the spacer. Those swirl thingie spacers are no better than a regular straight spacer from what I hear. I'd put the O2 sensor in right after the headers, it needs to maintain a certain temperature to work properly.

These guys might have adapter you need < CFM-Tech >



Posted by Dafrogtoad on Sep. 03 2006,12:12
I can't say I really WANT the EGR, but it's there, and I really wanted to stay as stock as possible. Not having the ERG working correctly can lead to problems, so I just tried to incorporate it into the swap. Now this...
Can I assume that the chip can be easily programmed to run without it? Will I have problems? I need opinions on this. I have searched this site and others to get the answers, but I'm either not typing in the right things, or Ity's not really discussed.
I'm beginning to wonder if the Edlebrock is worth the hassle in power gains..the stock intake is looking pretty good just now.

Thanks



This is what you are looking for.
http://www.astromens.com/images/1939.jpg

Check out this < L31 swap to TBI > link for great info & pics.
Check out this < L31 swap parts > link for technical info on parts


Ok, I have to step back here. So much information! I got a bit overloaded.
It would seem that the questions began when I decided to go with the Edelbrock Performer 2116. I thought this "wide open" intake would allow me to easier install a larger bore, perhaps the Holley, Tbi later. But this intkae has no provisions for EGR.
The other option is to go with the GM Performance Parts intake which is a LOT closer to stock (including the EGR)

The GM is a LOT more pricey, but does not require an adapter plate or EGR considerations. It seems to be a "bolt on and go" deal.

The Edelbrock seems like it's ready for bigger things, cheaper to buy at first, but lacks "stock" features.

Ok Ya'll
Is this a fair assessment of the choice between the 2? Yes I will be trying to go as stock as possible. (computer wise) Yes I'll be looking at the Holley TBI at a later date.

Opinions?

Posted by Dafrogtoad on Sep. 03 2006,12:40
V8famvan,
Is that the Gm Performance?

Posted by V8famvan on Sep. 03 2006,12:42
Fair enough assessment.
Ultimately you have to go with what you will be happy with.
Just make sure you have no regrets later.

Posted by V8famvan on Sep. 03 2006,12:44
Quote (Dafrogtoad @ Sep. 03 2006,9:40)
V8famvan,Is that the Gm Performance?

Did you type more & it got cut off?
Or are you asking it is a GM Perfomance intake?
I belive it is. I could check next week.

Posted by Dafrogtoad on Sep. 03 2006,12:45
I guess the question is...Will the GM Performance handle the 650 cfm (i think) Holley ok? If it will. it seems the way to go for ease of swap and less headaches!!

Posted by Dafrogtoad on Sep. 03 2006,12:49
No, I didn't get cut off. Just a quick question was all.


I'm trying to get this all together as the engine will be ready soon, and I'd like to have everything else as ready as possible when it arrives. I know I'll have other challenges as the install goes, the more I problems I can deal with now, the better!!

Posted by V8famvan on Sep. 03 2006,12:55
You will need to use an Edelbrock External EGR adapter kit #2899 (GM P/N 12552329) with headers (or equivalent) & EGR supply tube #10220275 to connect it up.
I do not know the CFM rating of this manifold.

Yet......

Posted by Dafrogtoad on Sep. 03 2006,1:11
Ok THAT"S a big help. I don't relly see yet how it works, but it gives me an idea of what's involved.
I guess I'll call Summit to find out the CFM ratings for these 2 manifolds, and if the GM one will work, I'll go with it as the prices of all the "little" parts is starting to add up.

Posted by Astro4X4 on Sep. 04 2006,12:20
Pretty sure you won't get the GM one from Summit. You'll need to find an GM dealer that handles GM performance parts I think. I seem to remember A GM dealer called Dahl's (or something like that) that was good on pricing and shipping. The GM intake would be better for bolting all your stock brackets and stuff to as well I would bet.

Posted by Dafrogtoad on Sep. 04 2006,2:33
Yeah, what little I have been able to find supports using the GM performance intake. Unless I find out that it won't support my planned TBI upgrage later, I'll most likely go with it. Ahhh well. In for a penny....
I'm still looking for a pic of someone's header modified to fit egr on one of these setups.

Thanks

Posted by Dafrogtoad on Sep. 05 2006,5:03
Well...I decided to go with the GM performance. Returned the other one. Now I just have to wait 3 weeks for the engine to be built, and get everything else ready..

Thanks again!

Posted by Lockdoc on Sep. 08 2006,11:23
You could use the Flowtech headers that allready have the bung for the EGR or just get an 02 sensor bung from summit and have it welded onto the collector of your headers. I have the Flowtech headers for my AWD V8 swap so I know they have the bung and know the 02 bung will work as that is where my 02 is mounted. I never tried to fit them to a RWD but I think they would work and the flanges are much thicker than the heddman though the collector outlet is only 2 inches unless you modify it.

Posted by peter on Sep. 09 2006,6:22
Guys, contact Astromens (Tom) at tom@lattof.org for your GMPP needs. He's awesome, works at Lattof Chevrolet. Above and beyond. I've used him (well, not THAT way, but you know what I mean )

Posted by Dafrogtoad on Sep. 14 2006,12:07
Thanks for all the info...motor should be ready in 2-3 weeks.
Until then, I have to contact the tranny guys to sched the tranny upgrade, the a/c guys to evac. that system, and decide which dizzy to go with.
learning......

Posted by Mr_Roboto on Sep. 16 2006,12:33
If you're going with a TBI system get a TBI/TPI distributor from an 88 Camaro at the auto parts store/junk yard or order one from summit. The stock style "small cap" units will work fine for a mild to moderate TBI build, if you wanna get fancier with the ignition go get a good coil and some 8.5mm wires.

Posted by Dafrogtoad on Sep. 18 2006,9:53
This is the one I think I'm going to go with..SUM-850008
Summit racing.

[dafrogtoad]

WOW!
Thanks!
Waiting for the engine to be finnished. In the meanwhile. I have been getting all the other things as ready as I can. I would like to actually DO the swap in 3-weeks.
I read about an Autozone radiator that has 3 cores, and is a direct replacement for my astro...going there today. Would like get opinions on cooling.
I live in the New Orleans area, hot in summer! Will be towing and using the A/C.
Opinions?

[LiftedAWDAstro]

If you have an 85 to 94 van, you can get a heavy duty radiator called a "heat buster". These are a direct replacement. I would also be adding a huge tranny cooler since you are going to be towing.

[dafrogtoad]

IS that what they call it at Autozone? If not, where do I look for it?

[dafrogtoad]

Whew..An afternoon learing about astro radiators..
I could not find the "heat buster" mentioned here. I did find a 3 core replacement, but it's copper/brass, and I think aluminum would be better for the Louisianna heat, towing, and A/C.
Seems that Griffin Radiator might be, as of now, the place to look into more. All aluminum 2 row replacement, sized for the astro. Better cooling. less space, (their custom would not take up as much width as the 3 core stock replacement) and no installation hassles. Cost? About $500. Not cheap, but piece of mind has value.
Anyone gone this route? Or simmilar? Anyone out there in a hot, humid climate who tows and loves A/C?
Love to get some more input on this.
Oh yeah. Got visit my bare block today...got a couple pics. Hope still to get it in a few weeks.

Cheers

[dafrogtoad]

HMMM..
While waiting for the engine. I have been checking into the "new" torque converter I thought I'd need for the swap. When I went to the Advanced Auto Parts site, ALL the TCs listed for the 5.7's in 1994 (year of may van) were the same! The 1500 truck, the 'burb, the 3500 truck, all listed the exact same replacement TC.
So, what's the upgrade? Or am I just looking at replacing the old one because it's old? I thought if I went to something pushing 300 hp, I'd need more..
?????????????

Dave

[Mr_Roboto]

The 4.3L converter WILL work with the 350, however you may also want to upgrade to the S-10 4.3L converter. (higher stall) If you're towing I'd probably avoid it, but if you're going for a street bruiser and are camming up. You'll also need a cooler for it as well if you do, but you should anyways.

[dafrogtoad]

cooler? I will have the transmission cooler to the rad. I need more?

[e7ats]

It would be a good idea to install an extra trany cooler. Even if you were not doing the V8, doing the trany cooler upgrade is recommended by most people here on the forum.

[dafrogtoad]

researching tranny coolers.......

[peter]

[quote="dafrogtoad"]Whew..An afternoon learing about astro radiators..
I could not find the "heat buster" mentioned here. I did find a 3 core replacement, but it's copper/brass, and I think aluminum would be better for the Louisianna heat, towing, and A/C.
Seems that Griffin Radiator might be, as of now, the place to look into more. All aluminum 2 row replacement, sized for the astro. Better cooling. less space, (their custom would not take up as much width as the 3 core stock replacement) and no installation hassles. Cost? About $500. Not cheap, but piece of mind has value.


Save your money. Go to your local rad rebuild shop and ask em to recore your rad with a single core rad from a late model camaro. Only one core, but 1.25" wide. It's the in thing now, it'll take up less space and it is "supposed" to be more efficient than a multiple-core rad. I'm running one on my 502.
Oh, the best part? $150 Canadian. If you're interested, I'll find the actual vehicle year and application for you.

[dafrogtoad]

Yes please. I'l always interested in saving money...

[peter]

http://www.jtrpublishing.com/Pages/Part ... iator.html

There you go. Read 'till you drop!!!

[dafrogtoad]

hmm...thanks!
I'll go to my rad shop tomorrow, and show them this.

[peter]

Houston, we have a problem!

The rad price shown includes the plastic tanks. I dunno how your rad is held in place, but 95'+ trucks have little locating feet built into the side tanks. As mentioned, I had the rad shop install the above core on my tanks.
As well, I believe that the rads on pre 95's are narrower. You should ask Bill (Lockdick) and/or Daren (So-socalli) if the later model rads'll fit in a pre-95.