Second row captians chair install. A tutorial of sorts...

ANYTHING FROM BUFFING YOUR PAINT TO REPLACING A DASH PANEL
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astronut74
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Second row captians chair install. A tutorial of sorts...

Post by astronut74 »

This seems to be a fairly common mod, but I searched and didn't see any tutorial, so I thought I'd give it a shot. At this time, it's not completed (freakin' rain!) but with luck, by the end of the day, I'll have at least one seat bolted in. The second seat, the one behind the driver, is directly above the gas tank. Since I'm working by myself today, and I have a full tank of gas, that will wait for another day. Feel free to chime in with suggestions to help make this a more through guide.

Ok, first thing you need to do is make sure you have everything together.
Here's what you need:
(8) grade 8 bolts 1/2" diameter 2 1/2" length (grade 8 or better for safety puposes, I used stainless steel for conveinence)
(16) 2 inch fender washers --make sure the bolt hole is 1/2" diameter as well!
(8) 1/2" nuts to go with the bolts (once again, I used stainless)

Tools you'll need:
A drill. 3/8" or 1/2 inch will do, but remember, you will be drilling a 1/2" hole, if you use a 3/8" drill, you will need a 1/2" drill bit with a 3/8' shank. I'm using a cordless drill, but don't be like me. Make sure the battery pack is charged before you start! ](*,)
A #2 phillips head screwdriver (may not be neccesary, depends on if you want to pull back the carpet)
and if your van is as dirty as mine, you'll need a pick to clean out the heads of the phillips screws you need to remove.
and a couple ratchets and sockets to bolt the seats back down.
On with the pics/ process:
First you'll want to clear out the back of the van.
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Next, your are going to want to mock up where you want the seat to go. A few things to consider: seatbelt placement. If you put the seat to far back, the shoulder harness will not contact the shoulder and will not protect your passengers in case of an accident and could possibly break their neck. Also if you move the passenger side seat to close to the slider door, the shoulder harness again, wont be lined up properly and will put more undue stress on the neck.

Sit in the seat. Buckle up. slide the seat all the way forward, then all the way back. Make sure there is enough room for the feet. When checking all this, take in to consideration the front seats as well. You may have enough room for your feet in the back, but if the front seats are slammed all the way forward, your passengers might be cramped when the front seats are occupied. Try to chose a happy median that will suit a variety of different sized passengers. But above all, driver comfort comes first for obvious safety reasons! If you are a driver that has to have the seat all the way back with a lot of lean, like I do, then guess what? the passenger behind the driver is going to have to give up some comfort. If you try to compenste by moving that seat further back, then seatbelt orientation becomes a problem.
Here is my mockup :
Here the seat is all the way forward
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And here, it's all the way back
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notice the seatbelt angle is a bit off when the seat is all the way back. I compromised here, because when the seat is all the way forward, there is enough leg room for me (I'm a big guy) but this seat will be primarly used by my son, so there is plenty of leg room for him with the seat all the way forward.
Even as far back as the seat will go, the seatbelt still wraps over the shoulder because it is routed through the seat "clip" (for lack of the proper word)

As you can tell, my carpet is trashed. Since I plan on replacing it, I just marked with a paint pen, where I wanted to drill.
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The black dots are the where I planned to drill. I used the seat base as a template (Yes I adjusted the seat several times!!)
Since you may want to keep your carpet, you probably shouldn't use a paint pen! one thing you might be able to use is a water soluble marking pencil. It's used to mark fabrics when sewing and can be found at, you guessed it, sewing stores. The good thing about that is it's washable.
The I drilled pilot holes where I had marked. I think I used an 1/8" drill bit, and drilled through the carpet. I used a small bit like that for two reasons. If I screwed up, I wouldn't be left with a gaping hole in the floor, and also because the length is also shorter, I wouldn't have to worry about puncturing anything important underneath just in case I did screw up. After each hole I drilled, I checked underneath the vehicle to make sure there was plenty of room for the bolt to fit, with the fender washer. But that still didn't stop me from having problems...
After drilling the final two holes (the inside ones) I saw that I had drilled through a ridge in the floor. I don't think it's too bad, but it's annoying. So I pulled the carpet out to get a better look.
Here is the seatbase on the side closest to the slider door. If I had drilled any closer to the door, I would had the frame to contend with underneath.
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Here is how it lined up on the other side.
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Bummer.. but I'll deal with it. I was really hoping it would be seated flat, not half on half off the ridge like it is.
Now, because I was a fool and forgot to charge the drill batteries, I only managed to get one hole drilled and the bolt installed. But that's ok, 'cause here comes the rain...
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One thing I was concerned about was how I was going to get the bolt to stay in the hole if I needed to take the seats out for any reason. I originally thought I would just JB weld the bolt to the floorpan on the underside, but when I was at Ace hardware getting the fender washers, I came across this:
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I'm not sure if it's a "locking washer" persay, but it does what I need it to, by not allowing the bolt to drop through the floor pan when the seats are removed.
Since the clouds were getting darker, I decided to start putting it up for now, plus I had two dead drill batteries, there wasn't much else I could do! But I wanted to get a mock up of both seats in so..
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That's roughly how it'll look before to long.
Feel free to add comments or suggestions. Let me know what you think so far (Yes I know I have a filthy van!) :D
Steve O

94 2WD Astro EXT
179,000 miles and counting
Going from an 8 seater to a 4 seater

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Re: Second row captians chair install. A tutorial of sorts...

Post by astrozam »

I've got the quad seating and from what I see,it looks like you have the seats pretty much where they should be, thanks for adding pics to the tut,its a real benefit to be able to see what someone is doing along with their How to :cheers:

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Re: Second row captians chair install. A tutorial of sorts...

Post by skippy »

when i did the seats in my 88 like this , i made sure the outer bolts on both seats lined up with the frame . that way i knew they weren't going to pull through the floor . didn't really trust the fenders washers on the sheet metal floor cux i'm a rather big guy . just needed a longer bit & bolt , but worked great in my opinion .
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Re: Second row captians chair install. A tutorial of sorts...

Post by ScottS »

Nice write up- what seats are those ? Fronts from an Astro ?
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Re: Second row captians chair install. A tutorial of sorts...

Post by astronut74 »

Thanks for the replies guys! The rain stopped, so I got to it again. Lucky for me, the rain gave the drill battery time to charge. So out to the van, drilled out the four bolt holes and ...
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Perfect fit! A view from under the van, this is the front two mounting bolts
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and the rear two mounting bolts
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I took the seat back off and torqued down the nuts to set the lock washers in place so the bolt wouldn't move around when I layed the carpet back down
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Earlier, I had mocked up the drivers side rear seat and even though I won't be installing it today, I made sur to mark the floorboard, once again with the black paint pen.
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Time to lay the carpet back down. Make sure you get it flat as possible, so when you cut the bolt holes out of the carpet, it lays smooth with no waves or bumps.
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In hindsight, it would have been much easier to use a boxcutter than a razor blade, you will have much more leverage to cut through the thick carpet backing and jute padding.
I've got the bolts pushed through, now I just have to replace the plastic moldings.
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And there you have it, bolted up and ready for use.
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Now where am I going to put these??? I need a garage!
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I will try to update this when I drop the tank for the other rear seat. I hope this proves useful to some of you good folks out there! :)
Steve O

94 2WD Astro EXT
179,000 miles and counting
Going from an 8 seater to a 4 seater
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Re: Second row captians chair install. A tutorial of sorts...

Post by astronut74 »

ScottS wrote:Nice write up- what seats are those ? Fronts from an Astro ?
Thanks for the compliment sir!

They are from a 93 Astro that came with middle row captains chairs. I made the "mistake" of originally purchasing front seats for this swap only to realize that the middle row seatbelt setup is totally different than the front seatbelt setup.

My "mistake" actually turned out to be a blessing in disguise as I was in dire need of front seats as well, half the padding was ripped out of the drivers seat.

So it looks like my interior is going from red to gray. That works great for me, as I was planning on getting gray carpeting in there anyway, But where can I find gray seatbelts? It's looking like my best bet so far is the salvage yard. Anyone know any place different?
Steve O

94 2WD Astro EXT
179,000 miles and counting
Going from an 8 seater to a 4 seater
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Re: Second row captians chair install. A tutorial of sorts...

Post by snapple »

Cool write up! :supz:
Have to laugh though,because I have the LT buckets and I'm converting to a bench seat!I need to modify a mount for the bench to fit the LT studs,so if I ever decide to go back.
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Re: Second row captians chair install. A tutorial of sorts...

Post by crash »

great write up!!!! many people ask about doing this swap, yet, other than words there haven't been pics.
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Re: Second row captians chair install. A tutorial of sorts...

Post by s10-den »

Are you sure those washers are thick enough?God forbidd "IF" something was to happen in a wreck, but I was just curious.I seen the car seat and thought I would ask....
94 Astro cargo EXT----Bought specifically to mod!!Will be tbi 350 v8 and new front end conversion
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Re: Second row captians chair install. A tutorial of sorts...

Post by astronut74 »

s10-den wrote:Are you sure those washers are thick enough?God forbidd "IF" something was to happen in a wreck, but I was just curious.I seen the car seat and thought I would ask....
Well, having not done any testing, I'm not certain as to what "thick enough" would be. However they are as thick as the sheetmetal. I don't believe it will be a problem. I may reinforce them at a later date though.

I've wanted to do this mod for a while now, but the car seat is actually the reason I started this mod. Because of the car seat design, I needed it to be placed in a highback seat.
Steve O

94 2WD Astro EXT
179,000 miles and counting
Going from an 8 seater to a 4 seater

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Re: Second row captians chair install. A tutorial of sorts...

Post by ihatemybike »

Maybe take a steel bar drill holes the same with width as the seat's bolts and mount underneath. That should be plenty of surface area to not rip through.
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Re: Second row captians chair install. A tutorial of sorts...

Post by Smiliesafari »

Good job, Steve. The hardware you've used is plenty strong enough. Stainless hardware is equal in strength to grade 5. Grade 5 is the most used hardware in automotive construction. You have to be careful where you use grade 8. I know it's strong but the stronger the hardware the more brittle it becomes. You'd rather have the seat fasteners bend a little or streach some before it gives up. The pics are great too. We here at ASV we thrive on pics. \:D/
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Re: Second row captians chair install. A tutorial of sorts...

Post by astronut74 »

ihatemybike wrote:Maybe take a steel bar drill holes the same with width as the seat's bolts and mount underneath. That should be plenty of surface area to not rip through.
That's actually how I had planned on reinforcing it. The worse part is I've got a piece of 1'8" flat steel stock that I've had for the past year, that I completely forgot about!
Steve O

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Going from an 8 seater to a 4 seater
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Re: Second row captians chair install. A tutorial of sorts...

Post by s10-den »

Thats more in line what I was thinking.But as others have said, what you have done "should" be good enough,extra insurance never hurt anyone though...
94 Astro cargo EXT----Bought specifically to mod!!Will be tbi 350 v8 and new front end conversion
Done so many v8 s10's their old news

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Re: Second row captians chair install. A tutorial of sorts...

Post by skippy »

Are you sure those washers are thick enough?God forbidd "IF" something was to happen in a wreck, but I was just curious.I seen the car seat and thought I would ask....
the way you did it is fine , i'm a 450lb guy & did mine the way you did with the exception of going through the frame on the outer bolts & my seats have never moved or loosened up & i've sat in the back while the wife drives , many times . I've checked the bolts quite a few times & they,re just as tight as the day i put them in .
YOU ONLY NEED TWO TOOLS IN LIFE - WD-40 AND DUCT TAPE. IF IT DOESN'T MOVE AND SHOULD, USE THE WD-40. IF IT SHOULDN'T MOVE AND DOES, USE THE DUCT TAPE.


DAILY THOUGHT:
SOME PEOPLE ARE LIKE SLINKIES - NOT REALLY GOOD FOR ANYTHING BUT THEY BRING A SMILE TO YOUR FACE WHEN PUSHED DOWN THE STAIRS.


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