Throttle bodys

original_balzer · Post by **original_balzer** » Tue Oct 28, 2008 9:17 pm

OK so I been MIA for a little while so a refresher is in order.
My dad put some wheel cleaner acid in a gas can.
My brother wasnt aware of this and dumped it into the gas tank of my astro.
The astro has since been dead.
I do have a throttle body rebuild kit, but have never rebuilt one.
HOWEVER I also have a 94 GMC with a blown engine.
Can I use the throttle body off that truck on my 4.3?

Jinmajay · Post by **Jinmajay** » Wed Oct 29, 2008 5:15 am

Yes you can use that TB but you will have to remove the throttle plate pull (the thingy that the throttle cable attaches to). The 4.3 has a front pull that has a cam shape to it. The Truck is a rear pull and has tabs for the throttle link and cruse.

Removing the pulls would be a little tricky as it is pressed and the end of the shaft is curled over. You would have to grind the end of the shaft then weld the new one on.

I would just rebuild the 4.3. Why do you say it is bad?

Jinmajay · Post by **Jinmajay** » Wed Oct 29, 2008 5:22 am

You can use a TB off a 350 tbi. The key is getting the model 220. They were used on 4.3, 305 and 350 GM tbi's around years 87 to 94 I think.

http://www.autozone.com/shopping/repair ... 528008f1ef

http://www.goingfaster.com/spo/TBIdiagram.html

You will have to swap the 4.3 injectors out.

I hardly help on this site and I should more.... Good bunch of people here...

Jinmajay · Post by **Jinmajay** » Wed Oct 29, 2008 5:25 am

Crap...

You will have to rewire the tps #58 and iac #75 because the conectors are different from the van to truck. Both are shown above. Keep the Van 4.3 tbi and rebuild it!

Smiliesafari · Post by **Smiliesafari** » Wed Oct 29, 2008 5:55 am

I agree with the afore mentioned posts on rebuilding the TB. It's a piece of cake. $\:D/$

original_balzer · Post by **original_balzer** » Wed Oct 29, 2008 9:14 am

Can any of you think of anything else I may have to do to get it running agin?
I have changed the gas filter and the pump still pumps gas at least to the filter. I was looking at the TB rebuild kit theres lots of little parts in there that Im sure the acid could have screwed up like injector filter screans, and all the rubber parts.

It acts like its no longer getting feul It cranks over just fine but never seams to fire at all. I cant imagine how the ign system could have been affected by acid in the tank so Im fairly sure it has to be a "no feul" problem. I think my course of action will be to rebuild the TB then check out the spark plugs, they may have gummed up or something. I could be wrong but I belive the Feul pressure regulator is in the throttle body? So there shouldnt be any other part of the feul system I need to check?

Jinmajay · Post by **Jinmajay** » Wed Oct 29, 2008 9:48 am

goodness! What type of acid was it? How long was it in there and how much fuel did it mix with (not much, I am assuming, because you mentioned you brother adding fuel by means of a gas can instead of a gas pump

). Did you try and start the van after he put the acid in it? I would think that the gas in the tank would dilute the acid enough so it wouldn't do any damage.

Let's assume that it was pure acid and the vans tank was very low and someone turned the key on...

Turning the key on sent power to the fuel pump and pressurized the fuel filter, lines regulator (yes it is a fixed regulator located inside the tbi, see #7). If your tank has rust and debris loosened by the acid it could clog the filter with junk. Can you replace the filter and cut it apart to see what was in there? The injectors have screens but I believe their are metal.

Your pump screen (plastic) maybe clogged with junk.

If it were me (kid's don't try this at home) I would remove the filter, hose clamp a rubber hose to the inlet line to the filter (from pump) to a 5 gallon bucket. Put good gas in the tank and turn the key on. Let the pump run and see what comes out and at what flow. TBI pumps are not as high of pressure as CPI, TPI but you still can get into safety concerns. Be careful and have a fire watch, eye wash, paramedic, ambulance and full hospital staff with burn unit on alert before trying this.

Does rubber react to acid? I know plastics are sometimes ok.

kings-x59 · Post by **kings-x59** » Wed Oct 29, 2008 10:40 am

If the throttle body rebuild kit does not come with the parts to rebuild the fuel pressure regulator, make sure you get the regulator rebuild kit. There is a rubber diaphragm in the regulator that I'm sure the acid couldn't have been good for.
Maybe I missed it and someone has already suggested this, but check your fuel pressure. This will show you whether or not your fuel pump is working. I believe the fuel pump is a diaphragm type pump. If the diaphragm fails, the pump will still run, but not pump gas. Fuel pressure should be in the 11 to 13 psi range.

original_balzer · Post by **original_balzer** » Wed Oct 29, 2008 4:10 pm

LOL ok some time has past since this happened so bear with me if I change the story as i remember it.

My brother got up one morning and wasnt sure he had enough gas to get to school. so he put about half of what was in the 5 gal gas can witch was about 3 gallons. So he put 1-2 gallons of sulfuric acid in the almost empty tank. He then drove 7 miles to the gas station and put 5 gallons of gas in, then went to school. He went to lunch with a friend so the van wanst run all day until he came home, witch is when he said it was running crappy. By then my dad had determined some of the acid was missing and they figured out it had been put into the van. When I got home they told me all about it, so I removed the filter and rigged it up to pump all the gas/acid out. I then sent my brother to get 5 gallons of gas. I then got called back to work. Somewhere in my absence it was determined to let the van run all night. My dad then shut it off at about 5am. It hasnt run since.

I have changed the filter again and run the pump with the filter off so I know it has a clean filter AND the pump pumps gas but I dont know how much pressure.

As far as the acid goes, I havent seen it react with ANYHING but aluminum. steel=nothing rusty steel=nothing rubber(tires) nothing. alum it fizzes for a few minutes and turns dull dark alum bright and shiney again. I also mixed some in a cup with gas and didnt notice any kind of reaction.

Jinmajay · Post by **Jinmajay** » Thu Oct 30, 2008 5:26 am

Good info.

As stated earlier by King, it's time to check the fuel pressure. I think you will have to buy an adapter to install on the pressure line (the one from the fuel pump, larger) at the TBI as I don't think there is a 1/4" shadier valve on the line like with the CPI engines. You can get one on ebay or do a google search "220 tbi fuel adapter and gauge". They aren't that bad on price. You unscrew the fuel supply at the tbi and install the newly purchased fitting and then hook the fuel line to the fitting. There will be a shadier valve that you can connect a removal gauge. I think you need at least 12 PSI but someone else can say what the minimum should be.

If you have adequate pressure at the TBI then you should look at the injector spray pattern. It should be in a uniform cone shape. I am not an expert on that so someone else can chime in on that procedure. Injectors should never drip or send non atomized fuel into the intake.

Next step is to jump on your brother

! I bet he feels bad.

Your O2 sensor will most likely need replaced but you can wait for the code on that one. It should not prevent the motor from running. Not sure how your cat will react to acid.

If the fuel regulator diaphragm is bad from the acid then that could be your problem as it will be returning most of the fuel to the tank instead of building pressure. The rebuild will clear that up.

This is what I would do but there may be a better way...
hope this helps, good luck.

Jinmajay · Post by **Jinmajay** » Thu Oct 30, 2008 10:06 am

Speaking of the regulator diaphram.
http://72.19.213.157/files/TBI-AFPR.pdf

original_balzer · Post by **original_balzer** » Thu Oct 30, 2008 4:52 pm

Cool link that may come in handy.

You guys know what Id really like to do? If that 350 in the 94 GMC ran I would swap it and the 4l60e and the np241 and a ford HPD44 front axle and a dana 60 rear....................................................................

kings-x59 · Post by **kings-x59** » Thu Oct 30, 2008 5:47 pm

Jinmajay wrote:Speaking of the regulator diaphram.
http://72.19.213.157/files/TBI-AFPR.pdf

very neat. wish I'd seen that before I shelled out the money for my adjustable regulator. oh well...

lockdoc · Post by **lockdoc** » Thu Oct 30, 2008 7:36 pm

Seeing that it idled all night it could have fouled spark plugs. Crank the engine and see if fuel is spraying out of the injectors. If there is then check for spark. If no fuel spray, check the fuel pressure and go from there. If you have a timing light hook it up to the #1 splarkplug wire (closest to the front of the van on the drivers side) and aim it at the injectors while cranking. It makes it real easy to see the spray pattern.

original_balzer · Post by **original_balzer** » Mon Nov 17, 2008 10:14 pm

OK an update! I have the throttle body mostly dismantled and found the injectors are FULL of crap and gummy junk, and RUST. They are just in terrible condition. Im not sure the injectors themselves are going to be usable, they have gummed up and the solevent doesnt seam to be touching it. I have no idea how a guy would get it cleaned out from inside the injectors.

So I guess new injectors are in order. It also has me questioning the feul pump. I have yet to take the regulator appart so Im sure its gummed up.

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