It No Fit...

SWAPPING IN A 305, 350 OR ANY OTHER SMALL BLOCK, POST THEM HERE.
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mdmead
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It No Fit...

Post by mdmead »

As I promised, I spent last Friday in the shop with my van. I spent about an hour cleaning and organizing, but then I spent a couple of hours actually being productive.

Well, "productive" might be overstating since all I accomplished was finding lots of hurdles I need to overcome.

Long story short, GM doesn't want the 5.3L swapped into the AWD Astro/Safari van.

I thought I'd found an easy way to get this engine bolted in. I had seen LS adaptor mounts that are supposed to allow the 4.8/5.3/6.0 to be quickly and easily bolted in where a 350 once sat. I ordered a set from Advanced Adaptors and all they are is flat steel that converts the 4 hole LS mount to a 3 hole small block mount. I also ordered a set of AWD V-8 mounts from JTR. Here are the mounts.
Image

Here is the plate mount bolted to the left side of the block.
Image

And with the JTR mount bolted to it.
Image

I then swung the engine into place... well, not really. Turns out the 5.3L A/C compressor wants to share the same space as the upper right axle mount. Here is where the A/C is located on the 5.3L
Image

I will not live without A/C. But, I thought there must be a way to relocate the A/C compressor and bracket. So at this point I decided to remove the compressor and try again. Here is the engine back in the general area. I didn't remove the bracket and doing so would give me enough room.
Image

But the A/C issue turned out to be the most minor. Two other problems popped up at this point. Using the plate adaptors, the JTR mount is too far rearward and won't match up with the factory V-6 mount. It is off by 1-1.5" Not only is it too far rearward, but with the thickness of the plate, the mount is also spaced too far towards the driver's side. (Note, I didn't install the passenger side mount, but I'm pretty sure I would have seen the same thing on that side.)
Image

The biggest stumbling block though is with the oilpan. I thought I'd be OK here since it is a rear sump pan and came out of a fullsize 4x4. I figured it would clear the front diff. It doesn't. You can see from this pic the engine isn't yet down far enough....
Image

And the oilpan is already touching.
Image

So where does that leave me? Well, I discovered there is a way to mount a different A/C compressor up top on the passenger side. The problem is it isn't (I don't believe) the stock compressor and the mount and new compressor will run about $400.

And since I had already planned on installing a 5" welded in subframe lift, I have up to 5" of room to move the engine up. Of course this means fabbing up engine mounts... which obviously I need to do anyway... and a new transmission mount. Plus it will mean I need new driveshafts when I reach that point. Moving the engine up isn't all bad. This would increase the ground clearance under the pan which is really needed anyway.

My next step is to enlist a friend to help me get the engine and transmission bolted up and then lower the whole thing back down and see exactly how much clearance I need.

I won't be back in the shop this week, but I'm hoping to be back the following Friday.
Matt
Selah, WA
-96 GMC Safari AWD Hi-Top Conversion -->Stalled 5.3L swap & 5" lift
-74 Ford Bronco -->Far from perfect but mine!
-99 V-10 Ford Super Duty Super Cab 4x4 -->Stock with 285 Cooper ATs
-00 Ford Focus Wagon -->The Red Turd
-95 Ford 24' Class C Motorhome -->My big block sleeper
-07 Can-Am Outlander XT -->My yellow 4x4 quad for work & play
-04 Ski Doo REV Summit -->Still several chassis behind!


No new projects until the current ones are done!
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dunedog
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Re: It No Fit...

Post by dunedog »

I am at a loss for words......I'm proud of you boy! :cheers:
1999 LS AWD 3" Lift,4.10's,Snowplow,9500lb Ramsey winch
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Smiliesafari
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Re: It No Fit...

Post by Smiliesafari »

Sometimes it just pays to stick with the tried and proven. Is there that much more to be gained by using that motor? \:D/
1996 Safari SLX Hotair balloon transport vehicle
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cd0156
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Re: It No Fit...

Post by cd0156 »

I wanna be at the point where I am having those problems!!! :bounce:

Cant wait to see your mounts and body lift!!! Get back out there!!
1999 Astro 4WD
NP231c Transfer Case Conversion, Custom Shifter and Front Driveshaft, 31x10.5x15 BFG AllTerrain, Custom Warn Front Bumper, DHC Rockrails, Superwinch 5000lb winch, Warn Spotlights and Flood lights on Custom Mounts, Thule Roof Racks Safari Rack and Kayak Racks, Alpine Touchscreen AM/FM/XM/CD/DVD/iPod, Eclipse Amps, Focal Utopia Component Speakers, Alpine TypeR 12" Subs, and probably lots more I am forgetting.... seems to happen more and more these days...
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mdmead
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Re: It No Fit...

Post by mdmead »

Smiliesafari wrote:Sometimes it just pays to stick with the tried and proven. Is there that much more to be gained by using that motor? \:D/
That is a question I've been asking myself... I've thought about selling off the 5.3L and going for a 350... But one of the reasons I wanted the 5.3L is because it was something different. While there are a few LS-1s, and at least one 5.3L in a 2wd, I haven't heard of a 5.3L in an AWD.

And if I get the 5.3L in and working, swapping it out for a 6.0L or or newer 6.2L should be pretty easy if (when) I decide I need more power.

So for now, I'm going to go forward and see what other obstacles I encounter before throwing in the towel on this swap.

I'd been holding off on having the 5" blocks welded in because I didn't want to move the subframe as I have the transmission/transfer case sitting exactly where they are supposed to be positioned. Since I'll be pulling the transmission now to bolt it back on to the engine, I'm free to move the subframe around again. I'll go ahead and have the new subframe mounts welded in and then I can probably mock up the new engine mounts. (Regardless of which engine I ultimately end up with, the subframe lift has to be there to clear my 31" MTs.)
Matt
Selah, WA
-96 GMC Safari AWD Hi-Top Conversion -->Stalled 5.3L swap & 5" lift
-74 Ford Bronco -->Far from perfect but mine!
-99 V-10 Ford Super Duty Super Cab 4x4 -->Stock with 285 Cooper ATs
-00 Ford Focus Wagon -->The Red Turd
-95 Ford 24' Class C Motorhome -->My big block sleeper
-07 Can-Am Outlander XT -->My yellow 4x4 quad for work & play
-04 Ski Doo REV Summit -->Still several chassis behind!


No new projects until the current ones are done!

NotDadsW41
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Re: It No Fit...

Post by NotDadsW41 »

Didn't someone here, or on the other sit, have a LS1 in an AWD van?

Shouldn't the install of an LS1 be virtually identical? Or is there something I am missing?

LS1AWD was the user name I think.....

Here's his site:
http://www.aei.ca/nmaclennan/
CD_S
1991 W41
1995 Astro - Now gone, I am Astroless.
1997 C1500
1989 9C1 Caprice
1997 Bonneville
1998 Olds 88 LS
http://forums.b-body.org - newly updated!
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mdmead
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Re: It No Fit...

Post by mdmead »

NotDadsW41 wrote:Didn't someone here, or on the other sit, have a LS1 in an AWD van?

Shouldn't the install of an LS1 be virtually identical? Or is there something I am missing?

LS1AWD was the user name I think.....

Here's his site:
http://www.aei.ca/nmaclennan/
Yes, there are a couple of LS-1 AWDs, but the original LS-1 appears to be set up a bit different than the later 4.8/5.3/6.0. I actually was in touch with Neil when I first started on this quest and soon realized the swap was going to be different.
Matt
Selah, WA
-96 GMC Safari AWD Hi-Top Conversion -->Stalled 5.3L swap & 5" lift
-74 Ford Bronco -->Far from perfect but mine!
-99 V-10 Ford Super Duty Super Cab 4x4 -->Stock with 285 Cooper ATs
-00 Ford Focus Wagon -->The Red Turd
-95 Ford 24' Class C Motorhome -->My big block sleeper
-07 Can-Am Outlander XT -->My yellow 4x4 quad for work & play
-04 Ski Doo REV Summit -->Still several chassis behind!


No new projects until the current ones are done!

NotDadsW41
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Re: It No Fit...

Post by NotDadsW41 »

Have you looked at Street & Performance's website, http://www.hotrodlane.cc/, for a different bracket setup?
CD_S
1991 W41
1995 Astro - Now gone, I am Astroless.
1997 C1500
1989 9C1 Caprice
1997 Bonneville
1998 Olds 88 LS
http://forums.b-body.org - newly updated!
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9dawgs
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Re: It No Fit...

Post by 9dawgs »

mdmead wrote:That is a question I've been asking myself... I've thought about selling off the 5.3L and going for a 350... But one of the reasons I wanted the 5.3L is because it was something different. While there are a few LS-1s, and at least one 5.3L in a 2wd, I haven't heard of a 5.3L in an AWD.
Ahhh, the things we go through to be different like everyone else.... #-o
Jim<><

'99 Astro 4X2, (RIP) 4" Overland Lift, 31X10.50/15 BF Goodrich AT T/A KO,
Rancho RS5000 shocks, Rockford Fosgate RFX9000, Red Top Optima, K&N Filter
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'98 Astro 4X2 (SOLD)
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Logan
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Re: It No Fit...

Post by Logan »

Well, I'm glad you're doing all this leg work for me. :-) I still haven't decided whether I'm going for the 5.3 or just back to the good ol 4.3 in my 02 AWD. I need to do something soon, but I just can't decide. Keep the pictures and info coming.

The other thought I had was about the fullsize express AWD vans. If you could get a chance to look at the underside of one and see how they did the accerssories and stuff, that would be awesome!! ideas ideas........
1988 Astro Shorty full cargo - 350 TBI - 5 speed
1993 Passenger 4X4 Astro 305 TBI V8 -2 speed transfer case 5" custom lift - Built by Lockdoc
2015 Ram Promaster City - work car
2004 AWD Express 5.3
2005 Express 15 passenger 6.0
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2001 International School Bus
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mdmead
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Re: It No Fit...

Post by mdmead »

NotDadsW41 wrote:Have you looked at Street & Performance's website, http://www.hotrodlane.cc/, for a different bracket setup?
No, I haven't. I guess I should. I've tried looking at their site a few times and I don't find it easy to use. I've done a few web searches and the only relocator kit that pops up is the one I referenced before. I've read a few things that say I don't want to use the compressor that came with the 5.3L due to the way it works. In a perfect world, I'd like to use my original compressor. (Of course I should look at it to make sure it isn't the model the bracket kit is referencing! I'm pretty sure it isn't.)
Matt
Selah, WA
-96 GMC Safari AWD Hi-Top Conversion -->Stalled 5.3L swap & 5" lift
-74 Ford Bronco -->Far from perfect but mine!
-99 V-10 Ford Super Duty Super Cab 4x4 -->Stock with 285 Cooper ATs
-00 Ford Focus Wagon -->The Red Turd
-95 Ford 24' Class C Motorhome -->My big block sleeper
-07 Can-Am Outlander XT -->My yellow 4x4 quad for work & play
-04 Ski Doo REV Summit -->Still several chassis behind!


No new projects until the current ones are done!
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T.Low
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Re: It No Fit...

Post by T.Low »

9dawgs wrote:
mdmead wrote:That is a question I've been asking myself... I've thought about selling off the 5.3L and going for a 350... But one of the reasons I wanted the 5.3L is because it was something different. While there are a few LS-1s, and at least one 5.3L in a 2wd, I haven't heard of a 5.3L in an AWD.
Ahhh, the things we go through to be different like everyone else.... #-o

Ha ha! Apparently its not enought to be the only lifted V8 Astro Conversion van in Washington!

Wow, I'm impressed Matt. I'm going camping in the Quillomene with PNBA this weekend, but just too far out of the way. I'll make it to Selah this summer to see what you have cookin.
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NotDadsW41
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Re: It No Fit...

Post by NotDadsW41 »

mdmead wrote:
NotDadsW41 wrote:Have you looked at Street & Performance's website, http://www.hotrodlane.cc/, for a different bracket setup?
No, I haven't. I guess I should. I've tried looking at their site a few times and I don't find it easy to use. I've done a few web searches and the only relocator kit that pops up is the one I referenced before. I've read a few things that say I don't want to use the compressor that came with the 5.3L due to the way it works. In a perfect world, I'd like to use my original compressor. (Of course I should look at it to make sure it isn't the model the bracket kit is referencing! I'm pretty sure it isn't.)
Yeah their site sucks as far as organization. Might be best to just give them a call. But I saw an article on there that was putting a 5.3 in a 68-72 Chevy P/U. The compressor was mounted on the top passengerside of the engine.....
CD_S
1991 W41
1995 Astro - Now gone, I am Astroless.
1997 C1500
1989 9C1 Caprice
1997 Bonneville
1998 Olds 88 LS
http://forums.b-body.org - newly updated!
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mdmead
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Re: It No Fit...

Post by mdmead »

NotDadsW41 wrote:
mdmead wrote:
NotDadsW41 wrote:Have you looked at Street & Performance's website, http://www.hotrodlane.cc/, for a different bracket setup?
No, I haven't. I guess I should. I've tried looking at their site a few times and I don't find it easy to use. I've done a few web searches and the only relocator kit that pops up is the one I referenced before. I've read a few things that say I don't want to use the compressor that came with the 5.3L due to the way it works. In a perfect world, I'd like to use my original compressor. (Of course I should look at it to make sure it isn't the model the bracket kit is referencing! I'm pretty sure it isn't.)
Yeah their site sucks as far as organization. Might be best to just give them a call. But I saw an article on there that was putting a 5.3 in a 68-72 Chevy P/U. The compressor was mounted on the top passengerside of the engine.....
On a lot of swaps, the guys are leaving the A/C compressor down low and notching their frames to clear. Of course for me it isn't a frame issue but a axle mount.

I did some web searching last night and came up with an alternative that would let me keep my current compressor. It involves using a modified pre-vortec 4.3L A/C mount. The extra bracket they fabbed for support needs help, but this is a possibility. http://www.maliburacing.com/forum/viewt ... 34&t=79059 But spending $400 for a better engineered bracket and new compressor doesn't seem out of line... especially when I consider my compressor has 150K + miles on it. I've got time to chew on this I guess.

I also found this site which shows available oilpans. http://www.s10forum.com/forum/f213/ls-e ... em-324366/ It doesn't look like there is a stock offering that will clear the front diff and doing other searches I've found a lot of folks have modified the side of the pan to clear the front diff for S-10 installs. (And this is what Neil did on his LS-1 also.) I also found a Moroso aftermarket steel pan that I suppose could be hacked up and rewelded. While I like the idea of the engine sitting down in the stock location, I should probably look at this as an opportunity to fix the poor oilpan ground clearance and go ahead and raise the engine/transmission/t-case up.
Matt
Selah, WA
-96 GMC Safari AWD Hi-Top Conversion -->Stalled 5.3L swap & 5" lift
-74 Ford Bronco -->Far from perfect but mine!
-99 V-10 Ford Super Duty Super Cab 4x4 -->Stock with 285 Cooper ATs
-00 Ford Focus Wagon -->The Red Turd
-95 Ford 24' Class C Motorhome -->My big block sleeper
-07 Can-Am Outlander XT -->My yellow 4x4 quad for work & play
-04 Ski Doo REV Summit -->Still several chassis behind!


No new projects until the current ones are done!

NotDadsW41
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Re: It No Fit...

Post by NotDadsW41 »

That's some good info on those sites. I'm considering a similar swap for my Caprice.

I'm thinking a 5.3 or 6.0 with the Active Fuel Management...
CD_S
1991 W41
1995 Astro - Now gone, I am Astroless.
1997 C1500
1989 9C1 Caprice
1997 Bonneville
1998 Olds 88 LS
http://forums.b-body.org - newly updated!
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