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Towing Car issues???


Topic author
leadtrombone
I finally get the smurf thing
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Joined: Sun Aug 08, 2010 2:36 am

Towing Car issues???

Post by leadtrombone »

OK. Once again i have a crazy idea. Probably never going to do it, but,,,......


Here is the question.. Is there a stability issue with towing something with wheels at the corners.

Most trailers that in know of, whether they be 5th wheels, or normal, have a central axel (or axles) and then have to balance on the hitch and that pivot point(axel)

Is it less safe to tow, lets say, a car or van with the wheels at all corners. Less tongue weight.

My idea was to make a matching strofari camping "trailer" to accompany the van.

Could put a generator and storage in the engine compartment and open up the rest of it for just sleeping and eating ... Hmmm

What do you guys think. Or on the extrem end put together two back ends to make a complete box???

(feel free to move this if it would be better in the camper section.)
1999 Safari SLE. Stock. Proud owner since May 2010. So far I love it..

Image
P1050479 by leadtrombone, on Flickr

The old cars - my progression to here (most recent first)

1996 Honda Passport
1988 BMW 320i touring
1989 BMW 520
2005 Chrysler Sebring Convertible
2002 Dodge 1500 Quad Cab
1989 BMW 320i
1990 Toyota Tercel EZ
1991 Mitshubishi Mirage
1970 Mercedes Benz 250 Saloon
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GnarliSafari
I sleep in my van
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Joined: Tue Jun 12, 2007 9:18 am

Re: Towing Car issues???

Post by GnarliSafari »

the fellow with the 502 bbc (peter?) in his safari already has a camper (tramper) that is a safari rear end, i forget if he has both axles or just the rear one, but i also know a couple people have fused to rearends together and done it that way also. probably no different, less safe than towing another vehicle behind you, i would look into adapting a trailer brake system into it. do a search on here im sure you can find pics.
99 SLT Safari AWD, G80/GT4 rear, Burgundy, 196,000 and counting (strictly AMSOIL) flowmaster 40series muffler no more cat, K&N Kone Filter, roll pan, 255/60/15 rubbers mounted to 15x8.5 inch American Racing Tailgunner wheels, billet grille, CB Radio, Alpine Deck, Shag carpet, the list goes on....
03 Chevy Silverado 2500HD, LB7 Duramax Diesel, 5 speed Allison Tranny, Crew Cab Long Bed, no muffler or cat, 4 inch turbo back and side piped. not too many other mods yet, also addicted to AMSOIL.
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Kabey's Van
I sleep in my van
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Joined: Mon Sep 29, 2008 8:35 am
Location: Victoria B.C.

Re: Towing Car issues???

Post by Kabey's Van »

The van/trailer idea has already been done by a few people. A member of this board, who does not participate anymore, made one from what was left over after he put a 502/502 in an awd.
Although, very difficult to back up with the two pivot points, I have seen trailers with the axle configuration you explained on hay wagons. Granted a tractor will only do about 20 mph.
People do tow vehicles behind RV's with all four wheels on the ground. I'm not to sure how it is set up though, maybe someone else will chime in and explain the set up for doing that.

Peter

Kidhauler
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Location: Vancouver B.C.

Re: Towing Car issues???

Post by Kidhauler »

If you cut the front off the van at the door post so the slider still works it will tow nicely.
If you leave the front axle in it will be a nightmare to tow as it will not turn worth a damn. By removing the front of the van and the drivetrain/ fuel tank the tounge weight will be very light I think Peter had his van down to 250lbs on the ball. It is also not legal to tow a trailer with a turning front axle and if you did it hay wagon style you will roll it over and die not to mention it would be a nightmare to back up. The other is you cant have the axles that far apart legaly
1999 Safari Touring edition.
trailer tow pack with a 3:73 posi
Bucket bench seats, Rear heat, Rear Airconditioning.
teal green
300 000 kms
AirRide air bags in the rear to fix soft stock suspension.
Onboard aircompressor to make it all work nice.
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1Gary
I have my van tatooed on my cheeks
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Joined: Wed Oct 07, 2009 4:18 am

Re: Towing Car issues???

Post by 1Gary »

Peter's Tamper has surge brakes on it.He did talk to Chops and me at a NECO about how he was considering a upgrade to electric brake system.

I do agree totally with Kidhauler.I have had the experience of "trying" to back up one of those car U-Haul dollies which is pivoted in the center.Didn't work out so good. #-o
1979 Malibu drag race only car
1999 Sonoma 4.3 5 speed-Rufus
1989 Astro-Ole Yellar cancelled-still selling off parts
1985 Astro-shop van R.I.P. my friend
1994 Astro LT RWD W4.3 rod knock RIP
1982 Winnebago single rear wheel-Chevy 350 Scraped 1/28/13-broken dreams......


Rochester,NY

Topic author
leadtrombone
I finally get the smurf thing
Posts: 172
Joined: Sun Aug 08, 2010 2:36 am

Re: Towing Car issues???

Post by leadtrombone »

Well so much for being unique...

Its interesting that it is not allowed (in the states?? Canada??)

I find this interesting as here in Germany (a country that seems to be obsessed with safty and regulation especially when it comes to vehicles) has trailers like that all over.. Mostly on big 7ton trucks but still.

Thanks for the input guys.

so the back end only should be reasonable balanced then for towing. (lots of work i know..)

Cool.
1999 Safari SLE. Stock. Proud owner since May 2010. So far I love it..

Image
P1050479 by leadtrombone, on Flickr

The old cars - my progression to here (most recent first)

1996 Honda Passport
1988 BMW 320i touring
1989 BMW 520
2005 Chrysler Sebring Convertible
2002 Dodge 1500 Quad Cab
1989 BMW 320i
1990 Toyota Tercel EZ
1991 Mitshubishi Mirage
1970 Mercedes Benz 250 Saloon
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Kabey's Van
I sleep in my van
Posts: 682
Joined: Mon Sep 29, 2008 8:35 am
Location: Victoria B.C.

Re: Towing Car issues???

Post by Kabey's Van »

They are allowed on BC roads and these trailers come in single axle, double tandum axle and tandem tri-axles, like the ones in these pictures.
I mentioned the hay wagon set up because with a fixed front axle and pivoting front wheels you would be as close to towing a vehicle as you can get.
A fulll swing front trailer axle set up has been used for years on North American with no abnormal safety concerns. The distance between your axles is dependant on the entire trucks axle configuration and weight distribution.
They are difficult to back up, but not impossible. In the hands of a good operator these rigs can be jacknifed with incredible precision in such a way that the driver can reach out his door window and touch the tailgate of his trailer while he dumps his truck right beside his trailers load that he just dumped. When you get 20-30 trucks with good operators doing this in a dump site, it's pretty cool to watch.
It's like square dancing but with gravel trucks.
http://hankstruckpictures.com/pix/truck ... tanker.jpg
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/e ... truck.jpeg
Peter

Took me a while but I found this video.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S24TDTty ... detailpage

Kidhauler
I sleep in my van
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Joined: Wed Sep 13, 2006 5:46 pm
Location: Vancouver B.C.

Re: Towing Car issues???

Post by Kidhauler »

Once the engine and front seats and front end are removed there is not alot of weight there. If you put a battery set up under the rear of the van where the spare tire used to sit it will remove tounge weight so if properly balanced and loaded it should tow nicely. A hay wagon design will not work neither will a dump truck set up as the whole tire assembly swivels on a fixed centre point. This means the right tire would pull forward through the wheel well when turning left and stuff into the front of the van when turning right.

Trust me I back up these units every day as well as b trains and nearly anything else on wheels you have ever seen. It isn't easy and in the hands of a normal car driver it would be bad. You will hate towing it. A regular trailer design will work well you can put a small gen set on the tounge and will be happy plus it will look cool that you made a trailer custom by hand yourself. Not just pulled the engine out of a van and towed the empty shell behind you redneck style.
1999 Safari Touring edition.
trailer tow pack with a 3:73 posi
Bucket bench seats, Rear heat, Rear Airconditioning.
teal green
300 000 kms
AirRide air bags in the rear to fix soft stock suspension.
Onboard aircompressor to make it all work nice.

Topic author
leadtrombone
I finally get the smurf thing
Posts: 172
Joined: Sun Aug 08, 2010 2:36 am

Re: Towing Car issues???

Post by leadtrombone »

Kidhauler wrote: plus it will look cool that you made a trailer custom by hand yourself. Not just pulled the engine out of a van and towed the empty shell behind you redneck style.
Honestly that was the part that i was trying to figure out... how to make it look like a trailer and not just a broken down van behind. I suppose one could make it look right with a bit of work.

Any thoughts on putting a set of the back doors on the front side. Then you could have a complete pass through.???

As i said though. It is just a kernel of an idea at this point. Don't know if i would ever be able to do anything like this....

Thanks for all the input folks.
1999 Safari SLE. Stock. Proud owner since May 2010. So far I love it..

Image
P1050479 by leadtrombone, on Flickr

The old cars - my progression to here (most recent first)

1996 Honda Passport
1988 BMW 320i touring
1989 BMW 520
2005 Chrysler Sebring Convertible
2002 Dodge 1500 Quad Cab
1989 BMW 320i
1990 Toyota Tercel EZ
1991 Mitshubishi Mirage
1970 Mercedes Benz 250 Saloon

Kidhauler
I sleep in my van
Posts: 877
Joined: Wed Sep 13, 2006 5:46 pm
Location: Vancouver B.C.

Re: Towing Car issues???

Post by Kidhauler »

You could cut the back off another van and weld the doors on but what was done in the past was to use a piece if sheet metal reenforced on the inside and make the front smooth and flat. This also leaves the front of the frame exposed so you can attach a tounge assembly. This also gives you a spot for a small storage box on the tounge so if you have a extra gas can for your generator you can keep it in the box so your trailer will not stink like gas.
1999 Safari Touring edition.
trailer tow pack with a 3:73 posi
Bucket bench seats, Rear heat, Rear Airconditioning.
teal green
300 000 kms
AirRide air bags in the rear to fix soft stock suspension.
Onboard aircompressor to make it all work nice.

Topic author
leadtrombone
I finally get the smurf thing
Posts: 172
Joined: Sun Aug 08, 2010 2:36 am

Re: Towing Car issues???

Post by leadtrombone »

Just a quick chop to see if it looks ok...

Hmmm. I am not as good at this as some of you guys...

Image
safariChop by leadtrombone, on Flickr
1999 Safari SLE. Stock. Proud owner since May 2010. So far I love it..

Image
P1050479 by leadtrombone, on Flickr

The old cars - my progression to here (most recent first)

1996 Honda Passport
1988 BMW 320i touring
1989 BMW 520
2005 Chrysler Sebring Convertible
2002 Dodge 1500 Quad Cab
1989 BMW 320i
1990 Toyota Tercel EZ
1991 Mitshubishi Mirage
1970 Mercedes Benz 250 Saloon
User avatar

1Gary
I have my van tatooed on my cheeks
Posts: 2743
Joined: Wed Oct 07, 2009 4:18 am

Re: Towing Car issues???

Post by 1Gary »

Dang.Anyone have copies of pictures of the Tamper???.It is really nice.Nothing like a broken down van behind his van.Flat front with what looked like a silk screen picture of the mountains he bear hunts in.Tires,rims,and color to match the van with a solar panel to power it.He used a tent on the slider side to make it into a cooking area/patio.
1979 Malibu drag race only car
1999 Sonoma 4.3 5 speed-Rufus
1989 Astro-Ole Yellar cancelled-still selling off parts
1985 Astro-shop van R.I.P. my friend
1994 Astro LT RWD W4.3 rod knock RIP
1982 Winnebago single rear wheel-Chevy 350 Scraped 1/28/13-broken dreams......


Rochester,NY
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Smiliesafari
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Location: Orlando, FL

Re: Towing Car issues???

Post by Smiliesafari »

Click on "Archives" on the front page of this site. Peter's van is in there.
1996 Safari SLX Hotair balloon transport vehicle
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1Gary
I have my van tatooed on my cheeks
Posts: 2743
Joined: Wed Oct 07, 2009 4:18 am

Re: Towing Car issues???

Post by 1Gary »

Well a correction for a spelling error.It's not a"Tamper" but a"Tramper" is the right search name to find what I am talking about. #-o

Sorry about that. :peep:

Peter said it was a wt of about 2500lbs .
1979 Malibu drag race only car
1999 Sonoma 4.3 5 speed-Rufus
1989 Astro-Ole Yellar cancelled-still selling off parts
1985 Astro-shop van R.I.P. my friend
1994 Astro LT RWD W4.3 rod knock RIP
1982 Winnebago single rear wheel-Chevy 350 Scraped 1/28/13-broken dreams......


Rochester,NY

Topic author
leadtrombone
I finally get the smurf thing
Posts: 172
Joined: Sun Aug 08, 2010 2:36 am

Re: Towing Car issues???

Post by leadtrombone »

this one???

yes that looks awsome. are there innie ic as well.
1999 Safari SLE. Stock. Proud owner since May 2010. So far I love it..

Image
P1050479 by leadtrombone, on Flickr

The old cars - my progression to here (most recent first)

1996 Honda Passport
1988 BMW 320i touring
1989 BMW 520
2005 Chrysler Sebring Convertible
2002 Dodge 1500 Quad Cab
1989 BMW 320i
1990 Toyota Tercel EZ
1991 Mitshubishi Mirage
1970 Mercedes Benz 250 Saloon
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