front end conversion(older van----newer clip)

[s10-den]

Ok, dont beat me down, I have searched and read some stuff on the old forum......NOW
I went to the junkyard today and found a good front clip.I see where you have to drill the old welds out.I understand that.On the bumper extentions,do they just bolt right back up to the "old" frame?Do you use the old donutes to set the new core support on?(mine is a 94 ext)I seen also where one guy had cut the frame on his,but he didnt exsplain why he cut the frame.Does the "new" clip basically set in place and you just weld it where it sets?Once the new clip is in place,does it kinds self-exsplain itself on where to weld?I seen where a fella had problems out of the gap not working out like everyone says.He had to lower the subframe to get the gap right.Now when the subframe gets back into place,wont that put stress somewhere????
Also,I seen where you need to extend the inner fenders?Why is this?
Sorry for the long post, but just trying to figure everything I need to know befor tearing mine apart...Thanks fellas....


EDIT:::::When getting the front clip,do I get the "entire"front clip"I was just looking, And I think some are leaving the original side pieces(where it is welded to the firewall?))on and just adding the new fenders,hood, and rad. support?I guess that would exsplain why some are extending the inner fenders?

[lockdoc]

The newer front end is longer hence you need to cut a good portion of the inner fender when taking the rad support. Then you have to meld the old with the new to achieve the desired length. There are a few things you need to fudge as you progress that you will see as you take on the project. IE: mounting points at the the rear of the fender, etc. The rad support bolts right to your frame. I had to do nothing with the frame to mount the front bumper unlike the pics you saw. I don't know why other than to say I had an AWD as a donor. Might be different brackets. I know they are different on the older vans between RWD and AWD. In retrospect, you don't need to drill all the welds out. Just the ones underneath if that since you can just match up the sheet metal and weld. Make sure you grab everything you can from the donor. Rad, condensor, overflow and washer containers, horns, braces, wiring, etc. I still don't know why I had to mess with the frame mounts at the time. The ironic part is I failed a state inspection cuz all the mount wasn't there by the time I was done. I installed new ones to pass and the fit just fine.

[s10-den]

Thats strange on the mounts,so you had to cut them down, then when you put new ones they fit without cutting.
So do I leave the inner fenders on my van or do I drill out the spot welds on the cab and take that off too?
If the inner fenders are shorter,how does the newer fender bolt up to it?Unless you put the newer inner fenders on too?Sorry, but im confused on that.
Im glad you mentioned that the AWD and the RWD might be different,because the one in the yard is AWD,I wont mess with that one then...THANKS for the help!

[s10-den]

Anyone else want to put there .02 in??
Would really appreciate it.Any pics of the rear mounting points or what anyone did there?Also, does the steel square thing that is on the newer frame(I assume that is the bumper bracket) just bolt right to the old frame?So I see where one guy just did the rad. support only,it looked ok, alot better than the old one, but still I like the longer front ends, looks alot better.The only reason I didnt buy the 95,because Im doing a tbi v8 and the 95 had the cpi motor.I could have gotten around the wiring, but thats one less thing to worry about...
SO,after looking over again,The inner fender is what I was thinking you swap out too,I dont think that is the case.You just "extend" it?Right?Well,I'm getting the front end this weekend, I hope so I guess we will see how it goes...

[s10-den]

well, went to the yard today, the one out there is 4x4 too ](*,)
BUT, hehehe, they have another they are putting out next Thursday with ALL the clading(grey or silver,I'm color blind... :-k ) around it, nice stock chrome wheels,super nice grey captain chairs with the arm rest.... =D>
I suppose the 68 people looking over this dont want to offer any pics or their helping hand eh?

[lockdoc]

My original reply said the AWD version was the "GOOD" one to get. At least that is what I used. You are correct about extending the inner fenders. I don't have pictures of everything but it is pretty self explanatory when you start putting it together. The older front fenders have mounts attached to the door hinge, the newer ones mount to the body. There are only a couple of people on this site that have done it. Hence not a lot of answers. I also have a thread here somewhere of converting CPI to TBI. As for the mounts, I just don't know. It may just have been the jacks under the frame, parked facing down hill at the time, or something else.

[SoCalli V8]

I had a very detailed write-up of how I swapped my front end, but due to all the crashes at the "other place" where we used to live, All has been lost...... when I have a spare 2 hours I may write it all out again one day.

Here is a visual of the few pictures that I have of my `97 front end onto my `86 Cargo shortie. Unfortunately I didn`t take any fabrication build up pics because at the time I didn`t think that anyone would be interested because I had soo many negative people telling me that it couldn`t be done.


From this




I had already fitted the V8 at this time and it had been running great, but because the new-style front end is 8 inches longer it gave me even more room under the hood.




I fitted the new-style core support along with the hood first, and got the hood latch working nicely to make sure that everything was square. Next I fitted the fenders, paying particular attention to all the gaps around the doors and along the hood. Then I test fitted the light assemblies and the grill to make sure all the gaps were even, at this point every metal panel was tacked just to hold in perfect postition.




I fitted the bumper extensions to the frame, then mounted the steel bumper followed by the cover, and checked that all the gaps were still even everywhere on the complete front end before I welded every panel together permanently. Next I made up the inner fender extensions to meet the radiator core support from sheet metal and welded them in.


To this....





Then this





Then to this, it is never ending....

[s10-den]

Lockdoc,I just reading over your post, I thought the AWD clip is what caused all the trouble?Not that it matters to much now because I'm geting the 2 wd clip that they are puting out the next week.

SoCali,did you have any trouble like Lockdoc did?As far as the fender not lining up and him having to take the sub-frame loose?

I read somewhere that you need to put the van on jackstands?What does jackstands have to do with it other than more room to get under the van?And Thanks fellas....

[SoCalli V8]

I am unaware of any difference between an AWD front end and a 2wd, I don`t even know what `97 van my front clip was originally fitted to?....

Jackstands wont change anything, it`s better that the van is on the ground so that you can 'eye' up panels easier.

[LiftedAWDAstro]

This is a note on placing jack stands for this front end swap...If you place the jack stands behind the front tires, the subframe will actually drop in the front. This may be why Lockdoc had trouble lining up the parts. Be very careful where you place them to keep the subframe level with the body. With 6 mounting points you can get almost an inch of movement between front to rear due to compression/extension of the body mount bushings.

[s10-den]

Thanks for the tip Lifted,I thought maybe I could throw this in here,I was at the yard looking at the 95-04 square headlight front end and a newer composite headlight,The only thing I seen was the buckets that hold the headlight in(I "think").Just so everyone knows who is reading up on this.AND I will be posting pics along the way for those who care...

[s10-den]

Could any of you who have the conversion on your "older" van,maybe snap a pic or two of how you mounted the bottom and the top of the fender?Sure would be nice to see...??

[lockdoc]

There is a triangle shaped plastic piece at the top rear of the fender at the bottom of the windshield. There are two phillips screws holding it on. The newer fender bolts into the body under this filler. The old fender mount for the top was actually on the top door hinge. I used a "rivnut" so I could use a bolt like stack rather than a sheetmetal screw. If I remember correctly, the bottoms are the same. Another difference is the newer fender only uses one bolt by the hood hinge and the older uses two. I don't think the newer fender uses the two torx headed bolts located midway up the inner fender area.

Edit: The bottom mounts different too. Same thing though, mounts to the inner wall. It is higher up than the old style.

You mentioned you were doing the front end before the V8. I would recomend you do them at the same time. The older rad support unbolts at the top in order to remove the engine. The newer ones do not. The suggest dropping the subframe to change out the engine. If you convert first, you will either have to cut your new rad support and make plate to mount it back together or drop the subframe. You will have sooo much room to do the V8 swap with the old rad support removed.

[s10-den]

Loc, thanks for the info.The newer clip I was looking at has 2 bolts at top too.I was thinking just drilling a "new hole or something when I do it.But that helps out some .I noticed that the older core support unbolts!!Thats great.The newer ones does not.Thats sucks!.I pulled it up on the carport yesterday to see what the v6 would do!Smoked the back tire off like it was skating on oil!So the v8 is not getting done anytime soon!...lol Dont get me wrong,It will be getting a v8, but not just yet.I want to get the front end on it,and if I decide to do the v8 sooner than later, I'll just take it all back apart, right??.........lol

[ScottS]

What are these bumper extensions - maybe my rusty subframe is those extensions that are rusty and I could just replace those

These pics/writeps are useful for those of us repairing a new style as well