Frustrated with Astro Van starter/flywheel issue...need help

[djdawg]

I have a 2000 Astro Van...over 200k miles. About a month ago when starting horrible sounds were heard and then a "whirring" sound which I learned sounded like a bad starter. I replaced the starter and all seemed fine for a few days and then back to the "whirring" sound. After consulting with some friends it was determined that it sounded like a bad starter...the goal was to take it out and take it back for an exchange.

As I'm taking out the second starter bolt (the one closest to the passenger side) I notice that the bolt hole (which believe it or not bolts DIRECTLY INTO THE CAST IRON ENGINE and not a bracket, etc) was broken. Upon further inspection I could see that there was some rust in the crack/break which told me this had been cracked for awhile.

First fix was J.B. Weld....didn't work. I'm assuming the torque that the starter is causing didn't allow that to work.

I was about to give up after calling some welders (all of them telling me it was very difficult to weld) until I ran across a metal fabricator. He fabricated a heavy duty bracket that was bolted on one side using the good bolt/bolt hole, and tapped a hole on the passenger side to hold it there...he used locktite and I drove off thinking everything was great. It has been for about a week...Now today I crawl underneath because last night when I went to start the van, it was back to horrible grinding noises like it did before. This time it sounded like the starter bendix and the flywheel where just banging against each other. As I crawled underneath the bracket he made was still solid and in place however when I tried to remove the "good" bolt from the "good" bolt hole, I was surprised that it came out so easily. It wasn't loose per say but almost....I thought this locktite stuff was supposed to prevent that from happening? As I loosen this bolt, I could tell the starter wasn't completely square against the flywheel and the more I loosened it, the more it seated itself in the correct place. I pulled out the bolt and noticed that it was bent....I had another exact bolt, put locktite on it and rebolted the starter down tight. When I turned the key the van tried to turn over (I haven't started it for a few days and it needs a tuneup so I think that's why it didn't start completely) but then the noise started again and I could tell the starter was out of whack again. I crawled underneath and saw that the starter was again not square...I repeated the process of lossening the bolt and retightening in order to start it...now I think it's flooded so I'm just waiting. I know I can manually hold it in place while my roommate turns the key and get it going but this is not a fix.

Now I"m wondering if there are teeth broken or missing on the flywheel...from what I've been told there is a very small chance of this happening since the flywheel is hardened steel....that the bendix teeth would break first. I don't know what else to do...the design of the bracket seems solid...why something is causingthe starter to move still I don't know. This whole problem would not be happening if Chevy did not have their starter bolts bolt directly into the engine block...for me to replace an engine block would cost more than I bought the van in the first place.

Any thoughts? I'm about to give up and call the junk yard and have it towed away....

[1Gary]

Can't understand why you are not easy-outing the broke bolt.Starter bolts are not harden and should be easy to drill down the center of the broken bolt to use a easy out to get it out of there.Cause should be determined before you put it back together and a close look at the flywheel is in order.If the flywheel is damaged,the tranny has to come out.Question to ask yourself is that something you want to do or is that a job you want to have paid to do?. If your willing to have the flywheel replaced,then let them get the bolt out for you.

[Smiliesafari]

Gary...I think his problem is the outside bolt boss has broken. I've seen this before. Some people think that starter bolts need 2 tons of torque to stay put. When too much torque has been applied repeatedly the outside bolt boss will crack and eventually fall off. The only fix that I know of is to weld up the area and redrill. It's a tough job but it works.

[Kabey's Van]

You have only mentioned two bolts holding the starter in place with no mention of a front bracket.
With the bracket that the fab/welder made for you, along with a bracket that is found on sbc's that goes from the front end of the starter to the oil pan and block. I wonder if that would be enough to hold it in place and keep it from moving around.
Also there are many different types of thread locker. Some will hold a bolt tight, but still allow for relatively easy removal where other types lock the bolt in place almost permanently.
Can you take a picture of this crack?

Peter

[doyoulikeithere]

I will tow it away for you! if your in my hood.

[1Gary]

Gary...I think his problem is the outside bolt boss has broken. I've seen this before. Some people think that starter bolts need 2 tons of torque to stay put. When too much torque has been applied repeatedly the outside bolt boss will crack and eventually fall off. The only fix that I know of is to weld up the area and redrill. It's a tough job but it works.

Skip-his post did say the one closest to the passenger side which I would think is the inside one. :-k Honestly,I had to go back and read it again. #-o

[djdawg]

Hey everyone...thanks for your suggestions. Just to clear a few things up...

Yes it was the bolt boss (thanks for the correct term smilesafari) not the bolt itself that was broken. And the bolt boss being the part of the cast iron engine block makes the whole situation difficult to fix.

Kabey's Van...I'm not sure what an sbc bracket is....I know there is no bracket on the starter itself. And it was the NAPA Auto parts brand of red locktite. The guy told me I wouldn't be able to remove the bolt once I screwed it in. lol...yeah right.

I have since contacted the guy that fabricated the metal bracket and described to him what has happened. I wonder if where the bracket is being bolted into place might be causing the problem. In a normal situation, the starter is held by two bolts that are bolted in vertically...with the bracket the good bolt is still bolted in vertically but there is another bolt that goes through a bracket arm and is bolted horizontally. While it seems like it would hold it into place enough, I wonder if it needs to be hung/bolted vertically in order to eliminate any movement whatsoever?

[lewisa]

I had a very similar problem with my 1998 Safari (186,000 miles); the block rusted and the starter motor came loose. I had it welded twice, and it worked for about a year, but now the starter will not engage the flywheel again. I am told by expert welders that it is extremely difficult to fabricate a solution that accommodates the close tolerances required for a "permanent" fix.
After spending $1500 on the van in the past year (new starter and new fuel injectors so it would pass Mass. inspection), I'm done. It's time to replace the van.

[Kabey's Van]

These come in all shapes and configurations, you could probably make one yourself.
http://www.google.ca/imgres?imgurl=http ... ,r:11,s:18

[doyoulikeithere]

put in a v8 with good threads there.