1 Ton 94 Astro. 6.5L, 4l80e, 14 bolt swap project complete.

[markmitchinnh]

What are you going to use for "bigger brakes"? just curious as I tried to find the caprice (police car) package all summer and could not get the backing plates.

[Mr_Roboto]

Great write up, I personally hate diesel engines but to each there own. I think the Government should make it mandatory that any diesel engined vehicle should have its injectors cleaned every 12 months. All that black smoke has to be damaging to the air quality. And the smell gives me a headache when ever I get stuck behind them in traffic.

Wouldn't do any good really. The older diesels emit smoke/soot because the turbochargers don't spool as fast and the newer ones do it when people modify them. It's not like a gasoline engine where a "dirty injector" usually causes them to burn rich etc. Diesels actually regulate their RPM via the fuel input as well as their power. The only limits of a diesel for making power are really the space to put fuel in the combustion chamber, the amount of fuel you put in and thermodynamics (eg melting parts down.) Usually diesels are run lean but if you turn the pump timing up (inject more fuel) then you're going to wind up with unburned fuel (smoke) out the tail pipes.

When injectors leak/seep usually it fills the crank case with diesel fuel ala the Duramax or Powerstroke. The newest generation diesels are actually super clean believe it or not, one of the engineers I was talking to from John Deere a few years ago said they could even produce air that was cleaner than the air around them due to the emissions scrubbing equipment. That's pretty off the wall if you ask me.

Interesting you're running your 6.5 on used oil. My buddy did that forever with his Datsun. He seemed inclined to think the pump was built with tighter tolerances so it wouldn't do it altogether well.

[Coyote X]

Didn't have much time to work on it today but I did get a set of standard U-bolt plates bolted on so the axle is now held on like any normal leaf spring setup. They look like they might hit when it bottoms out but I doubt it will do that often with the springs it has now. I will add another leaf to the pack when I lift the front end and put the 8 lug rims on it so it will never hit after that.

It will be another day at least getting all the bolts back in and tightened up. But it is finally looking like it will be strong and be easy to swap to the 14 bolt as soon as I can get the gears changed out in it. I also think I have figured out how to reinforce the frame so it can actually handle the loads I plan on putting on it. At the speed I am working on it lately, I might be 5 years getting it finished.

[markmitchinnh]

How are you gonna deal with the offset of the stock rear end if you bolt in the 14 bolt axle?

[Coyote X]

The G30 14 bolt is offset the same amount. It is just a bit wider than the stock 10 bolt so the wheels will stick out some if I don't narrow it. I have had a hard time finding someone who has a jig that can narrow a 14 bolt and is willing to do it. I have the front and rear suspension sitting around waiting for time to work on it. The front G30 spindles would mount easily with a conical shim for the lower ball joint but I really want that heavy lower ball joint off the G30 control arm. I still haven't done anything to figure out how to make it work.

I am at about 20k miles on it now and so far it has been great. I don't think there is a better combination for a daily driven Astro. It gets good mileage, it has enough power to handle 10,000lbs on a trailer without problems, and in general is pretty normal acting on the road. I expect to get at least another 200k out of this engine/trans before I have to think about it. 6.5 engines have a bad reputation but they are really an excellent engine for what they are designed to do. The last tank of actual diesel I put in it with a pint of 2 stroke for lube got me 23mpg driving like a nut. I still have no idea what the 0-60 is though and probably won't find out until I get the 14 bolt and turbo installed.

Lately I have noticed a bit of a diesel puddle under the van when parked so I pulled the doghouse off today and one of the rubber injector return lines was rubbing on the floor edge where the doghouse sits and wore a hole in it. So that took about 30 seconds to fix and I am back to no leaks. A 2 inch body lift would solve that problem before it started. So I am still thinking anyone else who wants to do this swap will save themselves a lot of hassle if they just do the body lift at the same time. Everything fits and works without it but it is a very tight engine bay. Even a 1 inch body lift, doing pretty much anything on it will be no problem. Changing the injectors and glow plugs would take about as long as changing the spark plugs on the 4.3 engine.

[Coyote X]

30k mile check in. Still chugging along like always. Only work since the last update was the battery isolator burned out and killed the alternator from overvolting it. So a rebuilt alternator and new isolator and it is all good again. The handy part was I was able to drive it for a few days till I had time to work on the alt. A couple months ago I put a 40W solar panel on the roof with 2 charge controllers to keep all the batteries topped off. So I could drive it to work and let the solar panel recharge it then it was ready to go driving home. I could have probably driven it all summer like that if I wanted to.

I also changed out to 5w40 mobil 1 synthetic for diesels. It cranks over way faster and even picked up a tiny improvement to mileage.

And news on the front spindle swap. I have decided that putting conical shims on it would be a bad idea since the stock astro ball joint is kind of small compared to the G30 one. So I am going to have to find a spare set of lower control arms from a junkyard and figure out how to modify them to get the larger ball joint in them. That is the only safe way to get the G30 spindles in it I think. Upper ball joint is the same size so it is just bolt in. I also have all but given up finding a G20/30 14 bolt with 3.54 gears they seem to be really rare. It can't be that hard to change gears in the one I have so I will do that sometime this summer.

So far I have had no trouble from running used oil. I have not had time lately to keep my supply up so it is right now running on normal diesel with either a gallon of oil or some 2 stroke to add the lube the 6.5 needs that is missing in modern fuels.

[Mr_Roboto]

hey I can I get a pic of what you did for the 4L80E linkage? Trying to figure out how to swap the 4L80 in my van, the linkage is looking screwy.

[Coyote X]

the part that is attached to the frame I just beat it to the rear with a sledgehammer till it was in line with the shift linkage then just reattached the shift rod back in place. I will get a pic of it tomorrow so you can see it.

I guess the fancy way would be remove it and move it back to the correct position and mount it

[TaxiVan]

Question... Did you use the 6.5's original accessory drive or did the 4.3's bolt to the 6.5? I am considering this swap and I want to retain functional air-conditioning (a challenge, my van was factory equipped with dual a/c).

Another point to consider is the 6.2L I have is an 82 model, and set up for V-belts. I'm just hoping that the 4.3's serpentine accessory drive and brackets can bolt to the 6.2, would save a lot of headache if possible. I noticed you swapped the hyrdoboost setup from the G-van into your Astro... was this out of necessity, or just consistency?

Last but not least, my van is all-wheel-drive, so I have concerns about the 6.2's oil pan clearing the front differential. However, it seems that a lot of things I thought would be an issue are of little concern or even a non-issue in your swap, is this something I should worry about? A 5.7 Vortec has been successfully swapped into an '01 AWD, and its owner claims they used an 8-quart aftermarket pan.

I also would like to retain functional cruise control... my van has a servo-type setup that I presume uses the VSS signal to modulate, so I suspect this won't be a problem as long as I leave the factory PCM in place to control it.

[Coyote X]

the 6.5 and the 4.3 both had very similar accessory drive setups. I never drained the a/c on mine and just used ratchet straps to hold it up against the hood while I pulled the motor out from under it. I don't know much about the 6.2 belt drive but it is probably similar to the 4.3 since chevy is pretty good about keeping stuff interchangeable for the most part. if everything else on the 6.2 is similar to the 6.5 you might have to just swap a few pullies around and maybe get a reverse rotation water pump off a 6.5 to change it to serpentine belt drive. The a/c was in the same place on both of my motors so I just bolted it down after the motor was installed. But everything except the a/c was just using the 6.5 pulley setup.

I just cut and made a new bracket for the astro cruise control. It is vacuum operated so I just connected it and the dashboard vent controls to the vacuum pump on the 6.5 and it works fine. I have a newer style cruise off a cavalier I will be putting on my van when I get around to it so I can do away with the vacuum bellows that take up all the room on the front of the engine. The newer servo cruise systems I think only needs a vss signal to operate and doesn't connect to the computer at all other than an indicator wire to let it know it is engaged. Both the G30 and Astro had hydroboost so I kept the Astro hydroboost valve and used the G30 power steering pump since it looked cleaner.

I don't know how the AWD front ends are set up, my van is a 2wd. the bottom of the engine and oil pan looks very similar to a 5.7 pan but it is larger holding 7 quarts so it is a pretty tight fit to the 2wd crossmember. It might be a very tough job getting an AWD diff in there with it. Again I have no idea if it is even possible. If a stock 350 pan clears it without modifications then this one will probably fit but again I have no real idea and am just guessing.

[TaxiVan]

the 6.5 and the 4.3 both had very similar accessory drive setups. I never drained the a/c on mine and just used ratchet straps to hold it up against the hood while I pulled the motor out from under it. I don't know much about the 6.2 belt drive but it is probably similar to the 4.3 since chevy is pretty good about keeping stuff interchangeable for the most part. if everything else on the 6.2 is similar to the 6.5 you might have to just swap a few pullies around and maybe get a reverse rotation water pump off a 6.5 to change it to serpentine belt drive. The a/c was in the same place on both of my motors so I just bolted it down after the motor was installed. But everything except the a/c was just using the 6.5 pulley setup.

I'm just wondering if the brackets, etc. on the current 4.3 will bolt to the 6.2 properly where everything will line up. Nice tip on the reverse rotation water pump, had forgotten about that.

I just cut and made a new bracket for the astro cruise control. It is vacuum operated so I just connected it and the dashboard vent controls to the vacuum pump on the 6.5 and it works fine. I have a newer style cruise off a cavalier I will be putting on my van when I get around to it so I can do away with the vacuum bellows that take up all the room on the front of the engine. The newer servo cruise systems I think only needs a vss signal to operate and doesn't connect to the computer at all other than an indicator wire to let it know it is engaged. Both the G30 and Astro had hydroboost so I kept the Astro hydroboost valve and used the G30 power steering pump since it looked cleaner.

My stock hydroboost looks a bit different than yours, so I presumed you had swapped the G-van unit... There must have been a change between 94 and 98.

I don't know how the AWD front ends are set up, my van is a 2wd. the bottom of the engine and oil pan looks very similar to a 5.7 pan but it is larger holding 7 quarts so it is a pretty tight fit to the 2wd crossmember. It might be a very tough job getting an AWD diff in there with it. Again I have no idea if it is even possible. If a stock 350 pan clears it without modifications then this one will probably fit but again I have no real idea and am just guessing.

The AWDs appear to be all the same design components as you would find under the 4WD version of the S-trucks/Blazer/Jimmy, without the actuators for 4WD. It appears to me that the 4.3 has a special pan to clear the front differential... appears to be a cast aluminum pan with a smaller sump to clear the differential. It's just occurred to me this issue might be easily solved by getting a stock pan for a 6.2 in a 4WD application. They were, after all, available in 4WD Suburbans and pickups, though most were in 2WD vehicles.

[Mr_Roboto]

Well, I found out that ultimately the spacing difference with a stock engine location was 2". To this end, I made an adapter bracket. Note I left a bit on there, this is in case I start dicking with the engine location ever such as another engine swap or going distributorless and scooching it back a few inches for clearance. Besides, it's easier to cut once or twice instead of welding a slab on!

[TaxiVan]

CoyoteX - Do you think a 4L60E would hold up behind a 6.2 if built properly? My understanding is that a 4L60E is the same basic innards as a 700-R4, which was used with the 6.2 for years. I am gambling on the idea that rather than try to cobble a TV linkage or rewire for a 4L85E as you have, I might be able to swap my IP for a later unit with the TPS and rebuild the 4L60E to diesel specs? Remember, I would not be towing, I would be using it as a taxi cab. Max load, say, 1200-1500 lbs of bodies (live ones) and luggage.

[Coyote X]

a 4l60 would hold up to a non turbo that is not lugging around heavy loads about as well as it does with any other V8 swap I figure. But one of the things I kept running across when I was planning out my swap was it is much harder to get a 60e to run standalone cheaply without a lot of work. Where the 80 in the G vans was already wired up to run standalone with just a tps and rpm signal from the engine. And I happened to start with the right G van for the swap so it was an easy choice for me.

I killed my first 4l60e with the stock 4.3 by towing a lot with it. I rebuilt it and made it as strong as it can get and spent like 1200 bucks on parts doing it. But really a heavily built 60 is still probably not as strong as a stock 80.

I say it mostly comes down to what parts you can find and what you already have as to whether it is worth using a 4l60 or 80 in your swap. For light loads either one will last a long time. Just make sure you will be able to get the 60 to shift gears properly and you will have no problems.

[TaxiVan]

CoyoteX - Clarify "standalone". Does the 4L60E need more than a TPS input to shift properly?