Which is worse? The Lift or the Tires?

[97CargoCrawler]

I've just been pricing out some gears and I'm not sure about the "carrier" size. Any ideas? Looks like it would cost me about $300 for gears and a master install kit for the rear axle. Thats not too bad. Eaton posi though is $465. $800 for me to rebuild the axle is steep! Thats like 10 full tanks of gas! 5 months of driving!

[Astrophysics]

Off road capability means lower mileage. Like you say, parts and labor does add up to many weeks or months or gas.
You should remember that most of the guys running JEEPs off road with big tires are only getting about 12 miles per gallon.

I would say get the second set of smaller lighter tires on the second set of rims. And heck BFG Long trails are good but a true street tire like the Michelin X or Goodyear street tire could even give a bit more mileage.

The trouble with changing rear ends is that it is not easy and you have to get a shop involved. and if you have AWD you have to change out front also.

Unfortunatley, it maybe better to just leave it as is. just try to drive slow, I mean real slow , 55 mph and

good luck.

[97CargoCrawler]

The guys running Jeeps getting 12mpg offroad are damn lucky! I get 6-8mpg in my '82 FJ40 Landcruiser with 33x12.5" BFG AT's on the street! If I feel a tailwind I raise the sails! I was actually considering disconnecting the front driveshaft and converting the front axle to electric drive. Make it a hybrid.

Nowadays folks need to stop thinking bigger gasoline engines and figure out how to convert older cars to electric or other alternative fuels. I'm designing one that runs on methane and human feces. The drivers seat will have a flush handle. You can drive and refuel at the same time!

[peter]

Mmead was the 1st to nail it on the head as far as the "correction factor" goes. If you're calculating how many miles you do with one gallon but your speedo/odo shows less miles due to the bigger tires....
I'm sure you're getting less mileage than before. Re-gearing would help your mpg a bit, not to mention recover some of the lost power since the tire change. But there's no way around the larger tires causing more rolling resistance.


- Re-gear to 3.73's at the least. It's actually the gearing which should bring your rpms the
closest to stock.

- Get a Hypertech Power Programmer (used from Ebay) and recal your speedo.

- Keep them inflated to the maximum stated on the sidewall as long as wear patterns don't
get yucky.

- Drive as if someone dared you to wring out the absolute most from a tank of gas. You'd
be surprised how much more mileage you can get simply from light & smooth acceleration,
shutting the engine off in very heavy traffic, and constantly trying to keep the highest
engine vacuum possible while maintaining reasonable highway speeds (vacuum gauge is
great for that).

- Keep cargo off the top of your truck except when it's really necessary (like a trip to the
river etc). Seeing as the van already possesses the aerodynamic qualities of a 4' x 8' sheet
of plywood held up against the howling wind, try not to aggravate the issue any further.


In closing, I'd like to take this opportunity to point out just how helpful it is to have certain members around. Take Mmead for example. This man took a fully-functional 1996 awd Safari Hi-Top off the road, had his concubine gut the vehicle of it's original engine (in between baking pies and her full-time job) and then leave the project unattended at that point. While a donor LS1 engine lies patiently rotting beside the carcass of this van, Mmead often posts helpful tidbits of information to other, newer members.
Now while I was as dismayed as the rest of the ASV community by Matt's total and callous disregard for the pitiful state of his vehicle, I knew that one day Matt would make up for it and show the world that patience is the key. Mind you, that day still hasn't come .
I am confident, however, that one day Matt's wife will find time in her busy schedule to resume the engine swap on that van. It'll be a glorious day when that happens. In the meantime, we always welcome Matt's comparatively trivial comments and suggestions. Go git 'em, Matty

[peter]

The guys running Jeeps getting 12mpg offroad are damn lucky! I get 6-8mpg in my '82 FJ40 Landcruiser with 33x12.5" BFG AT's on the street! If I feel a tailwind I raise the sails! I was actually considering disconnecting the front driveshaft and converting the front axle to electric drive. Make it a hybrid.

Nowadays folks need to stop thinking bigger gasoline engines and figure out how to convert older cars to electric or other alternative fuels. I'm designing one that runs on methane and human feces. The drivers seat will have a flush handle. You can drive and refuel at the same time!

I know a few members here who'd have fuel for life if that "alternative fuel" system of yours ever works

[WVKayaker]

I have been reading these comments and even tho the thread has been hijacked a bit, I get it. Thank you!
I have read all the suggestions and comments on gearing, driving gently, tire rolling resistance, and taking in consideration the new tire size and how it relates to calculating MPG.
The difference in revolutions per mile from 225-75-15 size to 235-75-15 is less than 5%. I kept that in mind when estimating my MPG's.
Thankfully the van is not my daily driver and only used on weekends and monthly excursions.
For now, the most economical thing for me to do is down size the tires. I've been driving very conservatively, mostly HWY, and the on board computer reads 15.4 MPG Average. I love my BFG AT's but must admit they really aren't practical. I do a lot of rough forest road and fire road driving but no serious off roading, so the Long Trails will be fine. And when you consider 95% of any given road trip is on pavement, and the cost of fuel these days, it just makes sense to me.
I have a nearly new set of BFG L.T. 225-75-15 that I will be swapping in when my new wheels arrive from Summit Racing. If I get back to 20+ MPG on the Hwy, that's an extra 100 miles to a tank of gas. Pretty significant.
All the comments and suggestions have been awesome and greatly appreciated. Thank you!

[mdmead]

In closing, I'd like to take this opportunity to point out just how helpful it is to have certain members around. Take Mmead for example. This man took a fully-functional 1996 awd Safari Hi-Top off the road, had his concubine gut the vehicle of it's original engine (in between baking pies and her full-time job) and then leave the project unattended at that point.

And a bunch more drivel snipped....

I can't believe I've been attacked like this!

I don't ever recall a time I've been flip towards Petey or his project(s).

This is supposed to be a community of helping, caring van owners. This kind of behaviour is uncalled for and I'd like to file a formal complaint!

[peter]

Yes, Mother Teresa. You've been slighted, big time. I suggest procuring yourself of a Tort lawyer and having at it, a la "Americana way". I'm sure the civil courts will award you millions......

[mdmead]

Yes, Mother Teresa. You've been slighted, big time. I suggest procuring yourself of a Tort lawyer and having at it, a la "Americana way". I'm sure the civil courts will award you millions......

I'm not after millions.... just a 502 small block powered van....

(Then I'll get my wife to put a 572 big block in it like should have been done the first time around!)

[phr1$k37]

WVKayaker going to the 4.11s + POSI is worth it. I had started a thread a while ago regarding this and Tom went for it. He loves it and speaks from experience. I did not do it because I am already 3.73 + G80 and as Petey said already close to stock mpg on hwy.
Daily I drive a short 10-15kms to work with FREAKING 13 traffic lights per one way trip. Without pedal punching too much I can average around 14-16mpg in the city. Last weekend loaded up with all the gear for camping and heading north (uphill only) for ~120kms the numbers are the same because the power band is there coasting at 80kph (had folks in weak 4/6cylinders following me) and it was a breeze.
I would personally love to go to 4.11 but the cost to buy the parts for me dont justify the "slight" increase I will get.

My tires are the Toyo Open Country AT, shackles + 2 1/2" arched springs in the rear, body blocks + torsion bar cranked up front.
It is hard to not get on the gas ... it just feels and sounds good. But driving politely really gets the mpg up higher.

[WVKayaker]

I put the Long Trails on Thursday and went on a 400 mile road trip this weekend. I'm at 20MPG Hwy. I'll post pics with my new wheels soon....
And gas was $4.219 a gallon in Davis, WV....$93.00 To fill up with 3 gallons still in the tank...Ouch!

[phr1$k37]

Sounds good dude! Looks like you found your combo!

[WVKayaker]

Here's a pic with the new wheels and the BFG Long Trails



Gas mileage is way up and the tires worked well. Not as cool as my BFG AT's. The trade off in mileage is worth it.

[phr1$k37]

Looks good to me! Weekend Warrior!

[T.Low]

Off road capability means lower mileage. Like you say, parts and labor does add up to many weeks or months or gas.
You should remember that most of the guys running JEEPs off road with big tires are only getting about 12 miles per gallon.

I would say get the second set of smaller lighter tires on the second set of rims. And heck BFG Long trails are good but a true street tire like the Michelin X or Goodyear street tire could even give a bit more mileage.

The trouble with changing rear ends is that it is not easy and you have to get a shop involved. and if you have AWD you have to change out front also.

Unfortunatley, it maybe better to just leave it as is. just try to drive slow, I mean real slow , 55 mph and

good luck.

The '02 F-150 7700 that the trip leader drove memorial day weekend Owyhee trip has his rig set up beautifully. With his 33" Mud Terrains, he got 11mpg on the trip. I got 15.5.

We would all top off in the morning in town or wherever/whenever we hit a pump. When we did fuel gage checks over the CB radio while, I was consistently at a much higher fuel reserve than most. Many would already be at half tank while I was still at 3/4.