Chevy & GMC Vans

Come on, the Liberties aren't that bad. They are much more capable stock than most people give them credit for and just like every Jeep they only get better once you start modifying them. True the front diff should be stronger than what it is, but adding a diff collar appears to remedy that problem. Having run with the Liberty crowd for a while now, comparing the stock Libby to the stock Astro AWD, the Libbies are better off road. It's mostly the due to approach, departure, and break over angles, but the lower gearing and slightly higher ground clearance helps too.

Lots of people say the new 4 door Wranglers are the ruin of Jeep, things have a longer wheelbase than our vans, and require more back and forth jockeying on tight trails. YJs were the ruin of Jeep too, as were the uni-frame Cherokees. A Jeep that you can't perform a body lift on outrageous. The Compass and Patriot are both currently taking a beating from the core Jeep crowd, but given a few years when the owners aren't so scared of scratching them, a few aftermarket companies making lifts and skids for them, they'll be out on the trails too doing stuff people will first shake their head at then accept.

I agree, the Libertys don't do all that bad in stock form. And yes they are better for off road than our Astro and Safaris are in stock form. The Compass and Patriot were built to provide a more "car-like" ride for the typical "soccer mom" that wanted a Jeep but not the gas guzzling rough ride typically associated with Jeep. They also don't have low range but they were not designed to be "trail ready" either.

T.Low wrote:How much room is there before you hit the front doors?

Bingo! This has always been my concern. But what about this.... What if a person decided to do a weld in subframe lift and moved the lift blocks slightly aft before welding them in place? An inch maybe? Two might really be pushing it. I don't expect this would be easy in that it affects a whole lot of other stuff... engine placement, steering shaft, electrical, hoses, yikes! But I've thought about it...

T.Low wrote:Question: Technically speaking, is "ground clearence" one measurement of the lowest point, or more of a combination of measurements that includes, lowest point overall clearence, break over clearence, and approach angles?

Technically it is the lowest point on the vehicle. It used to always be at the front or rear differential, but on many vehicles today it will be at the A-arm on the front suspension, or even a tranny mount or shock mount.

Don't waste too much time on this one. I've tried increasing wheelwell clearance on ZZ and though it helped, I still had interference issues. And that's on-road.
I love seeing tires that fill up a wheelwell a la 80's-90's Pathfinder. As such, I originally ran my 325/60R15's on custom 10" rims with stock offset using only the Overlands body lift out front and the shackle kit out back. Looked great but rubbed all the time.
If you'd like, I can dig up and post pics of the mosts I made to my fenderwells, especially at the front door area. Definitely helped, but if you're gunning for any semi-serious axle articulation, you'de better be running girly tires.

Look, Ive wheeled with a couple of Libbys. They broke. They were not ready to play.To add insult to injury, the front axle had a factory flaw in that they ran a oil passage to allow the gear splash to lubricate the bearing in the high pinion...but it ran along the spine of the diff....in an ALUMINUM housing!!!!! When you destroyed this axle by offroading with it....guess who paid for the repair? That's right....cause it was a Jeep that wasn't supposed to be wheeled, according to DAIMLER/chrysler...
I owned one of the unibody Cherokees in question. It was a superior product right out of the box. It had a 104" wheelbase that is the "magic" number, if you offroad much. It could outperform 94" wheelbases all day. Eventaully, I added full sized solid axles from a half-ton and 10 inches of lift running 38.5 tires. I also owned a Comanche with the same amount, and finally a smattering of Wranglers. NOBODY who builds the things even WANTED a body lift. We currently own the four door Wrangler hardtop. It reminds me of my Cherokee....except that the doors and top will come off (to me that's a plus).
On the axle issue...I think both of us Deans here have bumped their solid axles forward at least three inches.

I guess all the Libbies I've wheeled with were ready to play.

Dean, you are right. The SPB's front axle is forward about 2-3".