Is a body lift needed to fit an LS in to an AWD?

[ButtonPuncher]

Hi Everyone,
I'm finally looking to buy an Astro/Safari. I've had dreams of an AWD V8 for a long time now. I'm reading that a bunch of people are saying that they did a body lift to fit an LS in theirs. Why? What interferes? Is it the front diff? AC compressor or some other accessory? Or is it just that a custom/shallow oilpan needs to be made?


Thanks,
Ben

[Astrophysics]

Hi,
Well the 2 inch lift does make it easier to reach forward spark plugs from the side by lifting up inner fender flaps.

I would just stick with the V6 stock engine. Get the Astro AWD and enjoy.
It has 195 hp and adequate torque. No need for a V8 in my opinion. Spend your money on 2 " lift, rear sway bar, rock rails, ARB front bumper or equivalent. LED lights , camper conversion. Etc. Roof rack,

The Astro is not a race car. Driving a van at super high speed is a bad idea, they will never handle panic stops and severe lane changes as well as other vehicle.

AP
My 2003 Astro AWD is camper modified with aux battery, sleeping platform, sink, etc

[Mmusicman]

I would just stick with the V6 stock engine...The Astro is not a race car.

LOL! My opinion, this is a very poor reply... does not answer the OP's question whatsoever.
Just injects your own bias... based on assumptions.
The OP asked "if a body lift is needed to fit an LS into an AWD"... not if "a V8 turns an Astro into a race car".

No need for a V8 in my opinion..

Who said anything about "needing" a V8? It's called a "desire" to customize or improve.
While the stock V6 is a good capable engine for most purposes.. some people might want something different, cooler, stronger, or better.
That's why we customize our vans. The OP didn't ask for opinions on whether a V8 is "needed" or a "good idea"... he said it was a "long time dream" of his.
(Personally, who "needs" a funny looking bumper than sticks out past the body? But that's just "my opinion" too. See how that works...)
(Personally, I'd rather have a V8 than "rock rails, ARB front bumper or equivalent. LED lights , camper conversion. Etc. Roof rack")
Why the heck would I (or anyone) want "rock rails" or a "roof rack"... just because I own an AWD.
Not everyone wants to turn their Astro in a camper either!
The OP was asking about what "customize" mods are needed for a LS V8, not about how to "camperize" his van to be more like yours.
Sorry to be so blunt, but this reply just hit me a little badly.

The V8 is an EXCELLENT upgrade for the Astro, MANY have done it... and yes does require a bit more work for the AWD. The choices are to either modify the oil pan, or lift the body. I think lifting is a much better and easier solution, and accomplishes several nice objectives at the same time. I'm not sure EXACTLY how much lift is need to clear the differential, but I "think" I heard somewhere that 2" would do the job. I'm not sure if this applies to the LS or just the older model V8's. Hopefully someone will chime in. Yes, the fixed differential and front axle is the obstruction. Also not sure about A/C with regards to LS... but I know this is not an issue with older V8, something you might consider as well.

Driving a van at super high speed is a bad idea.

AGAIN, BAD ASSUMPTION! Who said ANYTHING about driving at "super high speeds" just because you want a V8. Personally, I drive my V8 van the same speeds as I did when it had a V6. V8's have more torque and pulling power than a stock V6 and are nicely suited to any van... but this doesn't mean you are building a "race car"... LOL

[AstroWill]

Driving a van at super high speed is a bad idea.

AGAIN, BAD ASSUMPTION! Who said ANYTHING about driving at "super high speeds" just because you want a V8. Personally, I drive my V8 van the same speeds as I did when it had a V6. V8's have more torque and pulling power than a stock V6 and are nicely suited to any van... but this doesn't mean you are building a "race car"... LOL

Exactly, I put the V8 in my Tiger for the torque, and got the added benefit of more engine braking for mountain passes. I don't drive it very fast at all, usually about 65-70 is the max.

[ButtonPuncher]

Alright, I'd like to hear more from people that have done an AWD LS swap. How much modifying of the oilpan or notching the frame is required to make it work instead of doing a body lift?

Mmusicman, thank you. Those are my thoughts exactly. The last thing that I want to do is raise the body and make the handling worse. Thank you very much for your input.

I am one of those crazy nutjobs that wants to take a minivan to the strip or Autocross. I know that it will never perform like a WRX but I just want to have fun. I LOVE a sleeper. And there's no more sleeper and a V8 minivan. Will I run faster than a stock civic? Probably not but I'll be laughing all the way doing it.

As to Astrophysics' keep the V6 comment, the only V6 that I'd even consider using is a LFX (Camaro V6). But because it's soo easy to do a V8 swap and you can now get one with AFM (cylinder deactivation), you'll get decent mileage too.

Thanks,
BP

[mdmead]

My comment is to skip the LS and go with a traditional 5.7 small block. Either way the pan is an issue on an AWD, but you can buy ready-made motor mounts and the A/C won't be a problem. (There may be an aftermarket pan that works without cutting, I'm not sure.)

I've got an LS and I've swung it into place and the pan is an issue. It will need to be notched. The pan from a Hummer H-3 Alpha (also available as a swap pan) *might* work, but I've yet to see it confirmed. (I read about guys trying it with an S-10 LS swap and it still hit, although I recall one guy managed to shim the front diff/axle away from the pan to make it work.) The A/C mounts down low on the LS and hits. It has to be removed, but you can buy a kit to relocate a compressor up on top. (Holley makes several reasonably priced kits to do it, but I don't think the stock compressor works and must be replaced with a different one.) Nobody makes LS engine mounts for the Astro/Safari, but I thought I could probably use LS to small block mounts in conjunction with V-8 AWD Astro/Safari mounts. I've got all the parts but have yet to get everything to line up right, but since the pan is still an issue, maybe it would work if I could get the engine farther down and in.

Neither engine requires a subframe lift (if you mod the pan/relocate the A/C), but there is one major benefit from doing the subframe lift and then raising the engine higher in the subframe: It gets the oil pan up and away from stumps and rocks. The downside, and I think this outweighs the gains, is then you will need to modify (lengthen) both the front and rear driveshafts. (Well, with only a couple of inches, the rear might work. I think any change in distance in the front will require a modification.) Seems to me building a skid plate would be easier.

Other issues with the LS will be the need to reprogram the computer (also an issue with EFI small blocks) and either converting the LS to a cable throttle (my plan), or install an electronic throttle pedal in the van. Oh, and I'm not sure about the exhaust manifolds on the LS. I *think* they (truck) might clear, but I don't know for sure. I don't know if any stock manifolds work on the 5.7, but I know there are available header options.

Go for a V-8 swap... either one... and document it here!

[ButtonPuncher]

Thank you Matt. Very good info. Thanks for the tip on the H3 oilpan being a possibility.

Yeah, I read about the AC relocation, HotRod magazine had an article on a cheap, easy way to do it. I've also looked in to a hydroboost brake booster to free up more room. I've researched all of this. I thought I had most of it figured out until I started reading about the body lift stuff. Now that I know it's just a matter of modding an oilpan to fit, that'd be a fun project. I'll just drop it in without an oilpan and take a bunch of measurements then go from there.

I'm definitely going LS. No offense to the other guys but to get aluminum heads and with just a cam, intake, and a tune to get 400-450HP, it's a no-brainer. I just checked and a 5.3 L59 complete dropout is $1,500. Or If I wanted AFM, get a 5.3 LMG for around $2k. I've also read that just doing a stock rocker trunion bearing upgrade, and filing the ring end gaps, these can take quite a bit of boost. THAT would be fun.

Alright, so baby steps here. First I need to actually buy a van. ;)

BP

[doyoulikeithere]

Hey ! Welcome aboard ButtonPuncher. Nice to see a new face .
I am watching this thread cuz I wanna know too ;)

Matt, please send me a link to these "ready made" AWD-SBC motor mounts you mentioned.

[ButtonPuncher]

Will do!

I don't know if these were the one's that Matt was talking about but I read about them in another thread...

713088-P : Vortec Gen 3 mount to early GM 3 bolt mount adapter
http://www.advanceadapters.com/products ... t-adapter/

But then you may need an LS adapter on top of that.

BP

[mdmead]

Will do!

I don't know if these were the one's that Matt was talking about but I read about them in another thread...

713088-P : Vortec Gen 3 mount to early GM 3 bolt mount adapter
http://www.advanceadapters.com/products ... t-adapter/

But then you may need an LS adapter on top of that.

BP

I haven't found any direct conversion mounts for these vans.

Yes, those are exactly the SB to LS mounts I have. They are supposed to position an LS and provide the mounting surface needed for the stock SB motor mounts for whatever application. (Note I had to grind on one of these mounts to make it fit the LS for some unknown reason. The pics with the instructions though showed I had the right orientation.)

My thought was to use those with the JTR AWD SB conversion mounts. (The mounts are listed here: http://www.jagsthatrun.com/AstroVan_Order.html You can click on the 2wd V-8 mounts for a similar pic, but they are a little different.)

The JTR mounts bolt up fine to the LS conversion mounts, but as mentioned, it didn't seem to be lining up right with the actual frame mounts. It should be noted I've since found some adjustable LS mounts that let you slide the motor forward or rearward. Like these: http://www.speedwaymotors.com/Adjustabl ... 00238.html I don't know for sure if these will do the trick, but may be a better option than the ones I have.

I have been making room in my shop to get the subframe pulled from the van again to play around some more, but I've got other projects ahead of it. (The subframe had to be bolted back in to move the van into the new shop a few years back and hasn't been pulled again since.)

[ButtonPuncher]

Cool. Thanks for the info.

[doyoulikeithere]

K, Thanks Matt. I had seen those before I'm sure.
So I just ordered the oil pan extender and the AWD mounts from JTR, for a SBC conversion for my awd van.

Seems to me i tried this before and later got an e-message that they no longer have these parts.

Will wait n see I guess ;)

[doyoulikeithere]

K, Thanks Matt. I had seen those before I'm sure.
So I just ordered the oil pan extender and the AWD mounts from JTR, for a SBC conversion for my awd van.

Seems to me i tried this before and later got an e-message that they no longer have these parts.

Will wait n see I guess ;)

Yup, as I suspected.... Got this email today from JTR..

"Mike, I will cancel and refund your order. I don''t know if we will ever make the Astro AWD mounts again and don't think anyone else is making them."

Bummer. I sure wish someone was still making these mounts. I want a set !!

[ButtonPuncher]

Well that blows. Thanks for the heads up.

Was it JTR that actually made the mounts? If so, now that they aren't making them, I wonder if they'd give us the CAD drawings. A guy that I work with has a PlasmaCAM.

BP

[doyoulikeithere]

Couldnt hurt to ask him...
the guy at JTR who sent me that response is Greg Knell <ghknell@gmail.com>