99 ENGINE REMOVAL

[RETUBJB]

LOOKING FOR INPUT ON REMOVING MY 4.3 .I HAD $800 OF WORK DONE(INTAKE GASKET,WHEEL BEARING, BRAKES AND SHOCKS) AND IT LASTED 15 MILES BEFORE DYING. THEY SAY I MUST HAVE AHD A BLOWN HEAD GASKET ALSO AND SAID THAT THE ENGINE HYDROLOCKED. TIME FOR A NEW ENGINE.

I SEE TAHT THE ENGINE AND CRADLE CAN COME OUT THE BOTTOM, BUT CAN JUST THE ENGINE COME OUT THE TOP?? WHAT DO I NEED TO REMOVE TO DO THIS.

[mdmead]

To bring it out the front, you will need to cut the radiator support. Several have done it and it isn't a big deal. (Cutting I mean. It's still going to be a bit of work!) GM did offer a kit for 95 model year vans to bolt the support back in place and if the kit is still available, should work on any 95+ van. But even without the kit, a person can easily fab something up. (SoCali on this board can fill you in on it.)

I pulled the subframe on mine and it was a lot of work since you have to unhook so much other stuff. If I was just doing an R&R on the stock engine, I would have come out the front.

[1996astro]

My decision ended up being to drop it out the bottom. (see sig) I started to tear it down to bring it out the front and thought about all the fighting I would have to do to get it to line back up with the trans and mounts. It is alot easier to remove engine from the subframe when its not also in the van. I also did not want the hacked rad support look when the hood was opened. Van looks as if nothing ever happend. I think I spent more time in removing things out of the way to try to bring it out the front than what it took to remove the subframe. Its a job don't get me wrong. Especially when doing it in a small garage with no air tools. If you had an engine ready and tools it can be done over a weekend. Having a couple buddies to help is good also.

[SafariRob]

My decision ended up being to drop it out the bottom. (see sig) I started to tear it down to bring it out the front and thought about all the fighting I would have to do to get it to line back up with the trans and mounts...

Brandon, the above line jumped out at me. I've removed and replaced the engines from three different M vans and have never had a problem getting engine/transmission mounts lined up and back together. I've thought about dropping the subframe, but the front brake line has to be disconnected and needs to be bled when reassembled (and I hate to bleed brakes; seems like the bleeder screws on the calipers are always too rusty to remove without breakage) and the steering shaft has to be disconnected, too. I dread the thought that one or more of the subframe bolts will be too rusty and twist off in the body.
Remember that I've never dropped the subframe to change an engine, but isn't it a pain to line the subframe back up with the body? I work in a gravel driveway and can see the subframe digging into the gravel as I try to position it, but I guess a sheet of OSB board would stop that from happening (that's what I use under the hoist).
Like I said, I've never dropped a subframe for engine removal/replacement, so I don't know what all goes into that. But pulling an engine from the front is easy from my experience. I have no doubt that when I replace the 305 presently in my van with a 350 I'll do the work from the front.
Oh, wait a minute--I see that you have an AWD van--I've never worked on one of them, so I don't know what's involved with engine removal.

[HPbyStan]

note: When you drop the sub frame, it's the REAR brake line that is unhooked. You unbolt the master cylinder from the body and the rest of the entire front brake assy stays intact...

[SafariRob]

Stan, I didn't think of that. With the way I was looking at it, I would have had both front and rear brakes to bleed when finished.
Another thing I just thought of--when removing the engine by dropping the subframe, can you leave the A/C plumbing and condenser intact, maybe by tying the compressor up out of the way after removing it from the engine? If so, do you leave the radiator in place, too?
Although my big problem with dropping the subframe is the condition and realignment of the subframe bolts and brake bleeding, I can see where both engine removal techniques have their advantages and disadvantages. But it very well could be the best way on an AWD is to drop the frame.
One of these days I'll have the get an AWD van and see what working on one is like.

[HPbyStan]

It would seem like you could leave the A/C hooked up but I didn't do it that way and don't remember why, sorry ! BTW , I put cut off pieces of RR tie under the rear wheels and used wheeled trays under the front wheels. I took the swivel off of my floor jack and put a bolt sticking up there instead. Now the bolt will fit into the hole right under the transmission mount and you have a way for one person to put the sub frame assy out to the side. The RR ties under the rear wheels make the body to sub frame a level match when you are going back together which makes lining up things at lot easier, Good Luck..

[dunedog]

One other thing...without a bodylift,as in lifted vehicle,you will need small nimble hands, to get the bolts that hold the tranny to engine out on top of the tranny
Also removal of the oil pan to get the motor over the front cross member makes it easier. After removing the oil pump etc.
Oh ,and also a cheap short load strap with ratching ability to hold the tranny up in place works well

[rlsllc]

Western Michigan? I'd be worried about dropping the subframe, just like Rob, that the bolts would twist off, or in the case of one that I worked on, that the captured nuts in the frame would break loose, and it was an almost rust free van from Kentucky.
Other than that concern, I'd be dropping the subframe if it were me doing it. It was on a junker, but I had the sub frame out, motor out, and empty subframe back under the van in less than 8 hours, by myself. I didn't cut anything, and I pulled the entire harness out of the van since I was planning on repowering something else.
It was easy to roll it out, back in, and line it up by myself. With a helper it would be a breeze.

It would be cool if you could lose the CAPS LOCK, it is very hard to read.

[dunedog]

Hey,I post WMass, not to be confused with Boston. I pronounce it, 'dog' and 'park' also 'Smith and Wesson' next town over

[1996astro]

To each their own. I do belive I would have had to pull the oil pan and pump also to clear the front axle if I was to bring it out the front. Or I suppose drop the axle. The bolts on the subframe came right out for me. The tables turned from coming out the front to out the bottom when I was trying to remove the exhaust flange bolts from the manifolds. #-o

[peter]

Important to note that this work was done on a glorious day. The day of the birth of a great leader....

[RETUBJB]

Allright, I will loose the caps lock. I am not a great typist, so caps lock lets me cheat some.
Western Michigan is the area along the Eastern shore of Lake Michigan. I live by Ludington, Mi which is half way up the coast.

Thanks for the great input. I have done engine/tranny stuff before, but not on something this new. I'm in the process of finishing up my son's project, a R&R in his 93 F150 4x4.

Out the bottom sounds like the way I will go. Is there a list or procedure anywhere that tells all of what needs to be disconnected, or is it just look at the vehicle and start disconnecting things? Any tricks for loosening the frame bolts?

Thanks again for your input and advice.

[1996astro]

Out the bottom sounds like the way I will go. Is there a list or procedure anywhere that tells all of what needs to be disconnected, or is it just look at the vehicle and start disconnecting things? Any tricks for loosening the frame bolts?

Looking at the van and disconnecting is pretty much what I did. As far as the frame bolts an impact gun would be helpful. I used an old ingersol rand electric impact and it did the job. From my experience the bolts go into the body channels away from the elements and came out easy. I believe the torque specs are around 150 ft. lbs. If you have air tools things will go much faster.

Ludington a fellow Michigander!

[SafariRob]

Ludington a fellow Michigander!

Does it count if I was born in Charlotte, Michigan, to Michigander parents? Can I be a Michigander, too? Huh? For further credentials I've got scads of cousins in Michigan and most of them have managed to stay out of jail.


I'll soon be disassembling my 88 Astro, so I'll have better insights on what it's like to remove the subframe from a very rustified vehicle. Just waiting for warmer weather... [-o<