AWD now a RWD?

ANYTHING TO DO WITH MAKING YOUR VAN MOVE EXCEPT FOR THE ENGINE ITSELF.
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bootpack
I am merely driving my van
I am merely driving my van
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AWD now a RWD?

Post by bootpack »

New to the forum, hopefully this is posted in the right place. I'm also not a mechanic at all, so keep that in mind.
A few months back I bought a 2003 AWD Safari. I built it into a camper and have been taking it out quite a bit. I like taking it onto some back roads and into the mountains, so I was looking for an AWD to help with the rougher roads/snow/sand/mud.
After some routine maintenance awhile ago my regular mechanic told me it looked like the front differential was leaking a little, and I should probably get that fixed. When I brought it back to get the small leak fixed, he realized that the AWD system had actually been bypassed by removing the driveshaft and the van is now only RWD.
Since one of the main reasons I bought this particular van was because I was looking for AWD, I was bummed to figure this out. So why would someone go from AWD to RWD? Recognizing I'm probably not going to do the work myself, would it be worth it/doable to go back to AWD? How much would this likely cost me? My mechanic tells me that there is no way for him to know if the AWD system is even functional without reinstalling the driveshaft. Then he might find out that it was removed in the first place because there were front differential or transmission issues that need to be dealt with. I want the AWD, but don't want to get stuck in a rabbit hole of more and more issues coming up if I start down that road. If I do keep it as just a RWD, is there anything about this I should know? Is it ok to run the van this way?
Thanks for any help/advice you might have.
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mdmead
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Re: AWD now a RWD?

Post by mdmead »

Okay, if the driveshaft has been removed, but the front axle halfshafts have not, then your front differential is still spinning as you drive down the road. If there was something significantly wrong with the front diff or any of the front end drive components, I'd think you'd know it. (It's possible you wouldn't as the torque would be coming in from the opposite direction of normal, but if it was a major issue, you'd feel a vibration or hear a noise.)

I'd guess if there is a mechanical issue beyond the missing driveshaft, it is in the transfer case.

What would I do? Find a used front shaft on Ebay or car-part.com and get it installed. Now see where you are at.

Many of these vans suffered from transfercase binding which could be cured by using a new fluid. If somebody didn't know that, they may have just pulled the shaft. That would be an easy fix.

But let's assume the worst, a bad transfer case. There is a lot of information on this site about swapping in a 2-speed transfercase, with a few being direct bolt-ins with almost no modifications. So not only could you fix your ride, but make it more capable in the dirt.

I'm no expert on the electronic t-case vans and others will jump in here... but isn't there some type of light or other indication when the AWD isn't working right? Or maybe just a code thrown? Just wondering why a missing driveshaft didn't make itself more obvious in this day of electronic nannies! Also, the viscous clutch t-case doesn't like being used with a missing shaft; does the electronic version suffer any ill effects? (If so, I'd think that t-case replacement would be mandatory at this point regardless of other mechanical issues found.) Again, somebody else will jump in here and provide these answers.
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Re: AWD now a RWD?

Post by Herbie »

mdmead wrote:I'm no expert on the electronic t-case vans and others will jump in here... but isn't there some type of light or other indication when the AWD isn't working right? Or maybe just a code thrown? Just wondering why a missing driveshaft didn't make itself more obvious in this day of electronic nannies! Also, the viscous clutch t-case doesn't like being used with a missing shaft; does the electronic version suffer any ill effects? (If so, I'd think that t-case replacement would be mandatory at this point regardless of other mechanical issues found.) Again, somebody else will jump in here and provide these answers.
I'm far from the expert, but here's a few things:

Yes, there's a "Service AWD" idiot light on the left side of the dash. Mine's on right now after swapping to the NP233. I was sort of curious if pulling the AWD fuse would make it go out. Worth checking, as it might also be why OP's light isn't on. I *think* the electronic T-cases were more tolerant of a missing front shaft. It's possible that's also why there was no light, if it's driving the front output and seeing compatible VSS signals, it might not know anything was wrong. Not sure about the effects on the front diff, though.

I'm with mdmead - get a replacement front shaft (I recently replaced my knocking one with an eBay part for $95), and see where you stand. Definitely replace the T-case fluid, as that's generally a good step, especially if you have concerns about the provenance of the old stuff. Then see what happens.

If you end up needing a new T-Case, drop me a PM. I just happen to have a low-mileage AWD from a 2003 Astro... ;) :bounce:
"My minivan is cooler than your bro-truck"
2003 Astro AWD Astrolander/ZMB - GTRV Top Transplant, 4" OLV Lift, NP233 T-case, evolving interior
1995 Safari GTRV Organ donor - gutted and gone.
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LiftedAWDAstro
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Re: AWD now a RWD?

Post by LiftedAWDAstro »

With the NV136 transfer cases in the 99-05 vans, you can safely remove the front drive shaft and run them without fear of the van rolling on hills. Most likely the problem is in the transfer case. Most times it is either old worn out fluid or a bad encoder (shift) motor. I would find a used drive shaft, flush the fluid with new Auto Trak 2 fluid and verify the "ATC" fuse is installed under the hood in the fuse box. Then drive it for a bit and see if it is binding or doing anything weird. I would have the mechanic fix the leaking front diff as well.
Current rides:
2013 Toyota Tundra DC 4x4
2008 Dodge Nitro 4x4
2005 Nissan Sentra 1.8S Special Edition

Mileage spreadsheet

Vans owned:
1986 Safari 2.5L 4 speed manual - scrapped
1995 Astro 2WD conversion 4.11 posi, shift kit, DHC rock rails - sold to Skippy
1998 Astro 4x4 D44, D60, NP231, full hydraulic system with 9k# Milemarker winch and snow plow - sold to Lockdoc
2003 Astro AWD all stock - traded for a 3/4 ton truck
2005 AWD, 4.10's - sold to skippy

Topic author
bootpack
I am merely driving my van
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Joined: Sat Dec 07, 2013 9:20 am
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Re: AWD now a RWD?

Post by bootpack »

Thanks for the advice guys. Gives me some stuff to work on. Mostly I'm glad to hear that there shouldn't be any major issues with leaving things as status quo for now (not going to roll away on me, etc). As the budget allows I'll start trying to track down a driveshaft and see where that takes me...

LiftedAWDAstro
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Re: AWD now a RWD?

Post by LiftedAWDAstro »

You can definitely do this in stages. If you put a drive shaft in there and it binds up, pull the "ATC" fuse and basically run in 2WD. Then do the other work as you can.
Current rides:
2013 Toyota Tundra DC 4x4
2008 Dodge Nitro 4x4
2005 Nissan Sentra 1.8S Special Edition

Mileage spreadsheet

Vans owned:
1986 Safari 2.5L 4 speed manual - scrapped
1995 Astro 2WD conversion 4.11 posi, shift kit, DHC rock rails - sold to Skippy
1998 Astro 4x4 D44, D60, NP231, full hydraulic system with 9k# Milemarker winch and snow plow - sold to Lockdoc
2003 Astro AWD all stock - traded for a 3/4 ton truck
2005 AWD, 4.10's - sold to skippy

Kidhauler
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Re: AWD now a RWD?

Post by Kidhauler »

I have seen several guys remove the front shaft thinking it will get them better mileage. There is a chance there is nothing wrong with it more than being a pig on gas.
1999 Safari Touring edition.
trailer tow pack with a 3:73 posi
Bucket bench seats, Rear heat, Rear Airconditioning.
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300 000 kms
AirRide air bags in the rear to fix soft stock suspension.
Onboard aircompressor to make it all work nice.

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Re: AWD now a RWD?

Post by Meterpig »

I had the dreaded bind which lead to to the dreaded chain stretch causing "forks in a blender" sounds. Had I known then what I known now...I would have followed the method here and even pulled the encoder motor if needed. I ended up putting a used case and all that...cost me $1k between labor, case and all the other stuff. What a pain.

Anyway, on the bright side..I have spares! Spare NP136's! I think what will happen is the cases will be made into one case and sold. Who knows...I might even recover some cost.
What do you think of my quest to swap transfer cases to the venerable BW4472?
viewtopic.php?f=58&t=9962

Photos including tear down for intake gaskets (PITA)
http://www.smugmug.com/gallery/n-xSjRG/i-bHzD6cz
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