Matt's New Shop

[1Gary]

If you where to look closely at the pictures,it looks like manufactured board which never rots and there is a steel pin in the bottom of the hole. #-o

[WoodButcher]

If you where to look closely at the pictures,it looks like manufactured board which never rots and there is a steel pin in the bottom of the hole. #-o

I don't know about the ridgepoles as they are a different color but the rest are PT, national codes say ".60 ground contact" are acceptable. .60 PT will outlive us. The ridge poles look like they were treated w/ creosote but that was banned years ago because of "pitch", the stuff that smells gives cancer. I think it has been reformulated as I've seen something similar many times in the recent years.

If that is the same kit I used you will see more steel at slab level, the short bits in the poles are to connect the footings as they are separate from the slab.

[1Gary]

The mini holes in the side remind me of the manufactured board used in decking and again that stuff never rots.

[mdmead]

Awesome ! Looks like things are moving.

I hope you don't mind a couple of questions.

Did that small non vibratory roller compact the soil in shallow lifts less than one foot each or were the lifts much greater and hopefully not just the entire fill height ?

Do you not have a concern that the timber embedded in the concrete will rot ?

Is there going to be any steel reinforcing in the concrete ?

Not trying to be a bummer but these issues would concern me.

You aren't bumming me. I struggled with some of these questions myself for the last several years before actually pushing ahead and building.

Let me state I don't feel a pole building is the best construction method and I'd rather have a stick built. Strength-wise, a pole building is plenty sturdy. My problem has always been with wood poles being stuck directly in the ground and the potential for rot somewhere down the road. In the end though, I had to let cost be the deciding factor. (A stick built would have been about twice as much; we are talking 2400 sq ft of enclosed space!.)

The roller was running constantly when the excavator was moving the dirt. I doubt it ever compacted more than 6" at a time. If you look down in the holes where the dirt was compacted, (which isn't the pic I included as that was the end where the dirt was being removed from), you can see it is well compacted all the way down. My concern with compacting is the concrete floor and it cracking somewhere down the road. But I really didn't have much choice but to go with this method given where I wanted the building and the final grade it needed to be to meet up with my existing driveway. (It is still a bit below it, but the concern was getting the motorhome in and out which isn't going to be an issue.) The County inspector coming out today may require a compaction test to be performed; the excavator didn't think so but the builder wasn't sure.

I don't worry about the wood rotting in the short term, and my only real concern would be right at ground level. I think it is pretty well protected in the concrete, except for wicking up from the bottom. Looking at the make-up of the soil, it is pretty dry 4' down.

I doubt there will be any reinforcing in the concrete supporting the posts. I'm not sure what would be gained. The floor will include a reinforcing fiber mesh.

As much as I haven't been a fan of pole buildings, there are a ton of them around. Just about every outbuilding built in our area is of this type of construction. And while I don't think they are necessarily 'lifetime' buildings, I certainly expect it to last the rest of MY lifetime (30-40 yrs), and that is really all that matters I guess. (Another advantage is our dry climate which will certainly extend the life beyond what could be expected in other parts of the country.)

[MrJames]

.....................

The roller was running constantly when the excavator was moving the dirt. ....... My concern with compacting is the concrete floor and it cracking somewhere down the road. ............

That was my concern also and it seems like it has been addressed.

... I don't worry about the wood rotting in the short term, and my only real concern would be right at ground level. I think it is pretty well protected in the concrete, except for wicking up from the bottom...

Concrete is like a sponge and will absorb moisture. As you state, the rotting my occur first near ground level. If that happens then repair with wood in the footings will be more difficult. If the wood rested above the footing then less chance of rot and easier repair.

..... I doubt there will be any reinforcing in the concrete supporting the posts. I'm not sure what would be gained. The floor will include a reinforcing fiber mesh.

A WWF (Welded Wire Fabric) in the footings would act as "temperature steel". For the loads that the footings will experience there is no need for much structural reinforcing. A concrete mix including fiberglass should provide the same result.

I envy you. Great Job !

[mdmead]

I know I've been falling down on getting the pics posted, but I've been busy with multiple projects that were a priority. I still made sure I got out and took pictures to track the progress.

On Monday morning, the crew leveled the posts and made sure they were positioned exactly right. (I'm sure this is because they read Skip's reply in the itsy bitsy, teenie weenie balloon post!)



The concrete truck didn't arrive until after noon. I never saw the County inspector, but they couldn't pour until he checked the holes, so he must have shown up prior to that.



They poured for the posts for the back wall first.




Then they made room to back the truck between the back wall posts to start pouring the front wall posts.



After the concrete was poured, a guy went around and double-checked with a level, and made any adjustments that were necessary.



Here's what a completed hole looked like. They actually ran out of concrete on the first pour and the truck had to go and get more. I don't think that was planned as there seemed to be a lot of discussion and phoning going on whey they came up short.



This was actually a short day for these guys as they left before dark. Here is the job site at the end of Monday.



I felt a bit bad for the crew on this day. It was foggy and damp all day and the temp probably never hit 30 degrees. Brrr!

[MrJames]

Thanks for the update. Now me with more questions.

Were the holes just filled to the top without any vibration of the concrete ?

Any cold weather protection applied to the exposed concrete ?

[Smiliesafari]

Lookin' good, Matt. You are paying attention to how these guys are staying focused on this project, right? There is a very important lesson here.

[mdmead]

Were the holes just filled to the top without any vibration of the concrete ?

Any cold weather protection applied to the exposed concrete ?

I didn't see any vibrating going on, but wasn't watching during the entire pour. Whether they did anything else to try and get the air out, I'm not sure.

No cold weather protection was applied after the pour, and they were using some type of fast setting concrete. I'm not an expert on concrete, but from what I've read, curing concrete creates heat. I would guess this is sufficient for the majority of the footing since it is below ground and staying warm. The effect on the upper few inches? Don't know.

You are paying attention to how these guys are staying focused on this project, right? There is a very important lesson here.

Yeah, but in MY defense, they have a pay check riding on staying focused. There are a lot of guys out there that would love to get their jobs if they were to lose them.

No such pressure on me!

[MrJames]

Matt

You are correct that removing excess air is one reason that a concrete mix needs to be vibrated. Placing concrete, whether in a form or a hole, will never be homogeneous without vibration. There will always be voids that will reduce strength and increase permeability of the final product. It can also be over and improperly vibrated.

You are also correct that the chemical reaction of curing produces heat. However, that heat is inadequate to prevent freezing when the ground and air are cold especially in that small of a volume that was placed. Just the opposite occurs in extremely large placements (Hover Dam) that the mix actually needs to be cooled.

You "place" concrete and not "pour" it. Anyone who tells you that "pouring" concrete without vibration and Winter protection is OK is very wrong. "Fast Setting" concrete will not make it all right either.

Just a FYI

[mdmead]

Matt

You are correct that removing excess air is one reason that a concrete mix needs to be vibrated. Placing concrete, whether in a form or a hole, will never be homogeneous without vibration. There will always be voids that will reduce strength and increase permeability of the final product. It can also be over and improperly vibrated.

You are also correct that the chemical reaction of curing produces heat. However, that heat is inadequate to prevent freezing when the ground and air are cold especially in that small of a volume that was placed. Just the opposite occurs in extremely large placements (Hover Dam) that the mix actually needs to be cooled.

You "place" concrete and not "pour" it. Anyone who tells you that "pouring" concrete without vibration and Winter protection is OK is very wrong. "Fast Setting" concrete will not make it all right either.

Just a FYI

You are obviously more of an expert than I. That being said, I'm not concerned with this pour... and I hope you don't lose any sleep over it either.

[mdmead]

Tuesday's weather was better. It was a bit foggy in the morning, but we saw sun off and on all day. Temps came up above freezing too.

From morning to night, there was a huge change in my new building.

Prepping for the rafters started right away with some of the posts being notched. It's amazing how much use they get out of this one Bobcat. (I occasionally see them priced in the $5-7K range and think I ought to pick one up!)






The time between the last pics and this one was only an hour and 16 minutes and they hadn't started on this rafter assembly yet. Holy crap!



Using a hand winch on four corners, they lifted the assembly up and fastened it in place.




48 minutes later, the second assembly was in place.



And two and a half hours later, around 3:30pm.





Shortly after this I took off to run some errands and didn't get home until after dark, so I couldn't see what more they accomplished.

[Smiliesafari]

Looks like these guys have done this a time or two. Nice progress. I know you're happy. Is the square footage more than your house?

[mdmead]

Is the square footage more than your house?

Big time! Nearly twice as big.

(Which is a sore point with my wife because she wants a new/bigger house. All in good time I tell her.... )

[okie1]

Really lookin good there, going up fast.