Chevy & GMC Vans

Lynne's old Dell is getting very slow, was(is) infected with viruses and we are looking to upgrade. Part of my criteria is to get something physically smaller and definitely more energy efficient. We have a 0% interest loan through work so it is a no-brainer.

Needs:
must run internet, such as ASV, Facebook, etc.
must run MS office well
must be energy efficient
must be reliable
Cost is somewhat an issue but not as much as I can finance up to 2 years 0% interest.

We don't do any video editing, picture editing (other than basic cropping etc) nor do we generally watch movies on it. It also does no gaming.

Currently looking for pros and cons of the Apple Mac-mini VS an IBM based PC. We looked at a basic HP mini tower with Windows 7 OS as well as the Apple Mac-mini. The HP is very familiar as we have always used MS based PC's. We are not familiar with the Apples at all. We are currently looking for info on the reliability, longevity of initial speed and user friendliness of the Apples.

Please post up what you know NOT what you heard from your neighbors' best friends' second cousin twice removed!

Since you are not into video editing, etc. there is no big reason for you to spend the extra dough on an Apple. They are known to do that stuff very well. MS Office is for Windows. Apple would use OpenOffice but it can read Ms Office files. I have never had an Apple but I know they are awesome but use different software than what you have now. You can still get a lot more out of the IBM based for the same price.

I've never owned an Apple.

But I think a person is crazy to stray from a Windows-based PC unless they are heavy into video/art (Apple) or like to tinker (Linux).

Yes, Windows-based systems and the popular software are targeted by hackers more than any other. But, there is also tons of help available to thwart and fix.

There is just SO MUCH more available software for Windows-based systems. And because the majority of the world uses Windows-bases systems, you never have a compatibility issue. (And when you do, it is the Apple owner's problem to conform!)

My main computer is a Dell laptop. It's OK, but I'm not super impressed. I'm on my third battery and it is shot. (Won't hold a charge.) We've owned two E machines, one a laptop and I've thought they were a better value. I'm also not sold on Intel processors, although I haven't had any problem with the one in my Dell. Given a choice though, I always go AMD. Maybe I just like the underdog.

When I bought my wife's computer, I was too cheap to buy MS Office, so I installed Open Office. It's a little different, but very functional. It works with all our Excel, PowerPoint and Word files as promised. I don't think I will buy MS Office again if Open Office is still free.

Just my opinion... and worth what you paid for it!

Mac.

It takes a little bit of getting used to, but my stress level is much lower since getting one. (once you get over the empty-wallet shock).

Personnally i would go with a mac. If you can afford it and if you want too.... That being said.. If you have never used one there will be a bit of a learning curve.


But there is a version of MS office for it. (there is also open office{free} or apple own iWork ~75$ and they are compatable with ms office formats for reading and saving)

you can also run windows on the hardware (or virtually if needed for certain software) if needed.

The benefits that i find are that stuff that is supposed to work with the mac will just work when you need it. There is little under the hood stuff that the basic users will need to do.

I use both; Have owned both; Broken and fixed both Mac and PC's. They will both do what you request.

if you have a monitor, keyboard(usb), and Mouse(usb) then the mac mini is a nice unit that can be put just about anywhere. The Imac is a good all in one.

The other small energy efficient option is what is known around as a NetTop. Not super powerful but should do what you want. Use little energy (comparatively) and are pretty small. Some can be mounted on the back of your monitor as well..

Any questions. I'd be happy to help...

lockdoc wrote:MS Office is for Windows. Apple would use OpenOffice but it can read Ms Office files.

Microsoft makes Office just for the Mac so compatibility is not an issue. Apple also has iWorks but I haven't researched their software yet.

lockdoc wrote:You can still get a lot more out of the IBM based for the same price.

Best bang for the buck, I guess.

mdmead wrote:But I think a person is crazy to stray from a Windows-based PC unless they are heavy into video/art (Apple) or like to tinker (Linux).

That is why we were looking at the mini. It isn't any more powerful than a comparable PC. 2.4GHz Intel Core 2 Duo, 2 Gig SDRAM, 320G HD, DVD burner, etc.

mdmead wrote:Yes, Windows-based systems and the popular software are targeted by hackers more than any other. But, there is also tons of help available to thwart and fix.

This is where the idea to switch platforms is coming from. I get sick of nearly daily having to update security both AV and Windows and you still get a virus. How many times have you done the Windows updates and found your computer running weird until the next day or 2 when a new Windows update comes out to fix the previous one! ](*,)

mdmead wrote:There is just SO MUCH more available software for Windows-based systems. And because the majority of the world uses Windows-bases systems, you never have a compatibility issue. (And when you do, it is the Apple owner's problem to conform!)

I agree. But, in the last 18 or 19 years that we have had computers, I have not bought any super duper fancy software for doing anything. Will I in the future? Not unless my life changes and then I still have my Gateway that I use.

mdmead wrote:My main computer is a Dell laptop. It's OK, but I'm not super impressed. I'm on my third battery and it is shot. (Won't hold a charge.) We've owned two E machines, one a laptop and I've thought they were a better value. I'm also not sold on Intel processors, although I haven't had any problem with the one in my Dell. Given a choice though, I always go AMD. Maybe I just like the underdog.

Lynne's computer is a Dell. Bought it in 2002, upgraded Ram in 2007 or 2008 due to being slow as snail snot. It sped up some but it really isn't that fast. I guess I like the Mac's size, environmental impact and it's cool to look at. We went into Best Buy after the Apple store and looked at their desktop models and all 16 of them looked the same, more or less. All black, all plastic and all making a lot of noise and heat. I guess I just want something nicer. I compare it to driving a base model truck - manual windows, locks, vinyl seats, no A/C or cruise. Will it get the job done, sure. But the fancy version is soooo much nicer to ride in everyday.

Apple is the underdog and I am liking them the more I look at them. The mini is an energy efficient machine too. It draws just over 9 watts at idle and 1.45 Watts in sleep mode! Damn thing uses less power than a night light! It is built out of aluminum too. (This is good because I work for an aluminum plant)

mdmead wrote:When I bought my wife's computer, I was too cheap to buy MS Office, so I installed Open Office. It's a little different, but very functional. It works with all our Excel, PowerPoint and Word files as promised. I don't think I will buy MS Office again if Open Office is still free.

We tried that with Jessie's laptop and ended up buying MS Office. She found some of the files, when going between Open Office and MS Office (College) would come out messed up and she would have to fix them. Simple things like line spacing etc. If we only used it at home it would be fine. I have no problem spending money on something when I know it works and works well. It is a very small portion of the total bill whether PC or Apple based. ($149)

mdmead wrote:Just my opinion... and worth what you paid for it!

I got what I paid for!

leadtrombone wrote:Personnally i would go with a mac. If you can afford it and if you want too.... That being said.. If you have never used one there will be a bit of a learning curve.

Money isn't the issue (to a point). the Mac will be almost double the price but I will finance for 2 years where the PC will be financed for 1 year, so my weekly payment is the same. Again, 0% interest so it costs me nothing more.

leadtrombone wrote:But there is a version of MS office for it. (there is also open office{free} or apple own iWork ~75$ and they are compatable with ms office formats for reading and saving)

you can also run windows on the hardware (or virtually if needed for certain software) if needed.

Have you used iWorks? Either way we go, PC or Mac, we'll be buying Office or something compatible. If iWorks works then it is a possible savings. ($75) Lynne uses MS Office on her work laptop which she doesn't bring home, so she needs to be able to work at home and then transfer effortlessly to her work laptop for class lessons. This is a daily affair and must be seemless.

leadtrombone wrote:The benefits that i find are that stuff that is supposed to work with the mac will just work when you need it. There is little under the hood stuff that the basic users will need to do.

Such as...

leadtrombone wrote:I use both; Have owned both; Broken and fixed both Mac and PC's. They will both do what you request.

if you have a monitor, keyboard(usb), and Mouse(usb) then the mac mini is a nice unit that can be put just about anywhere. The Imac is a good all in one.

The other small energy efficient option is what is known around as a NetTop. Not super powerful but should do what you want. Use little energy (comparatively) and are pretty small. Some can be mounted on the back of your monitor as well..

Any questions. I'd be happy to help...

I am very impressed with the power consumption of the Mini. Absolutely amazes me they can use so little power when I am sitting here and my Gateway is humming along, noisy and warm. Keeps my toes warm! We would buy the keyboard and mouse. The Dell kb is PS/2 and the mouse is a backup because the good one died.

Thanks to all of you for info and advice. We are leaning towards the Mac but we haven't bought yet.

LiftedAWDAstro wrote:

mdmead wrote:When I bought my wife's computer, I was too cheap to buy MS Office, so I installed Open Office. It's a little different, but very functional. It works with all our Excel, PowerPoint and Word files as promised. I don't think I will buy MS Office again if Open Office is still free.

We tried that with Jessie's laptop and ended up buying MS Office. She found some of the files, when going between Open Office and MS Office (College) would come out messed up and she would have to fix them. Simple things like line spacing etc. If we only used it at home it would be fine. I have no problem spending money on something when I know it works and works well. It is a very small portion of the total bill whether PC or Apple based. ($149)

We haven't seen this, but I actually had the same problem in the past with two machines using MS Office. In one case it was the different printer drivers installed on each machine. Very frustrating. My wife was complaining that Open Office wasn't opening the PowerPoint files she was receiving, but that was because she never 'associated' the file type with Open Office. (Even after I told her what and how to do it several times!) ](*,)

Sounds like you will be an Apple owner shortly.

Yeah, we are leaning towards the Apple. Lynne is the one who will be using it 95% of the time.

Have you used iWorks? Either way we go, PC or Mac, we'll be buying Office or something compatible. If iWorks works then it is a possible savings. ($75) Lynne uses MS Office on her work laptop which she doesn't bring home, so she needs to be able to work at home and then transfer effortlessly to her work laptop for class lessons. This is a daily affair and must be seemless.

I use iWorks on my mac. I find the conversion to the office format (.doc unfortunatly not .docx) works 96% of the time perfect. Sometimes the spacing is a bit messed if you use page layout instead of using the normal document layout (think posters vs wordprocessing). The iWork suite is really good for doing those one off type documents that word isn't really made for (sales posters, flyers etc)

I convert files to and from almost daily at work. Not many issues. And if i don't need someone to edit the doc i can (and do) email it as a pdf as the conversion and sending is a two click process if you use the apple mail program for email.

leadtrombone wrote:
The benefits that i find are that stuff that is supposed to work with the mac will just work when you need it. There is little under the hood stuff that the basic users will need to do.


Such as...

..... printers. I have a lexmark at home that i downloaded the driver for (to get the scanner part to work). But the other 3 or 4 printers that i use at work (with my laptop) worked as soon is i plugged them in. One was used on the usb port. Plug in and select print for the doc and there it was. The others were network printers. They were found and usable as soon as i plugged in the ethernet cable. No searching for drivers or going through tons of setup prompts.

Also with external devices (usb hard drives; firewire cd burner). I had two cheap ones that i used on my mac all the time. I tried to use it on a XP computer and XP would not mount the disks. Went to the website to find drivers and the one recommended never worked. It was a night mare. Still works on the mac no prob.

Now .. I must qualify all of that... I do a lot with computers. I have been fixing (and breaking) computers for quite a while and am a system admin for my facilities.

The issues that i come across are not always everyday layman issues. However I do find the stability and usability of the mac comforting.

What ever you choose will do what you need. Just be prepared to take a little time to get comfortable on the mac. It is different than Windows.

Stay away from Microsoft Office! Use Corel's WordPerfect instead. Much more powerful program and much more intuitive. Also costs less.

I am probably quite late in to the conversation here but I have used many different types of notebook, laptops, desktops, workstations and servers - just no mini netbooks hah ha.

Everything is built with a purpose and/ or can be tweaked to what you want. Just like our vehicles

Apples have very nice design and are simple to use. They cost more. Just because you do not do video editing does not mean you cannot own an Apple laptop - whatever floats your boat right?

However if you want something that is more mainstream with the rest of your house gadgets (unless you have many Apple iPhones, iPOD, iPOD Touch, etc) then maybe you should stick to PC stuff?

If you like fancy designs look into the Sony Vaio laptops. Spend a few extra moments using the mid to high end laptops and you see the R&D time spend into the devices ergonomics and workflow.

You want something priced cheaper and is of decent quality? Acer laptops. I picked up a travel notebook (not a netbook) that has a 11.6", 1.8GHz, 300GB, 4GB ram, runs for 3-5 hours (depending on usage), Windows 7, etc light as feature for $339 CDN. I think I saw the same model in Walmat US last weekend for $299 US. It is powerful enough to pull up my photos shot at a client's site to show them on a 30" LCD monitor.

Dell laptops have always ranked high marks in my books - but word of caution, the lowest model I get are entry business level Inspirons. I believe I have had Dell laptops since P2 266MHz days hah ha. They are built good. There is a reason why they are "cheap" and yet robust enough that US military orders them for general usage.

a solution to the MAC vs Windows thing....

Buy the MAC mini with OSX (Snow Leopard) and then get a copy of VM Fusion installed, and create a virtual computer inside running Windows 7 (which the the best Windows OS to date)

oh and FWIW, thats coming from a life long Windows user and IT support guy.

My current work laptop is a HP Elitebook 8440p, my desktop is a HP DC7900 (soon to be an 8100) and my MAC is a MAC Pro (desktop and its a BEAST!)

My home pcs are all home built, my home laptops are all Dell (Latitudes) and IBM's (Thinkpads)

Anyway, the new Intel based MACS will run both MAC OS and Windows, you can dual boot them or run the Windows OS in a virtual environment.

We did it! We ended up going with the Mac mini and got Iworks (rather than the Office software). Lynne is setting it up now. I'll report back tomorrow after she uses it more. I know so far she is VERY happy with the speed of internet! Once she gets it setup I think she'll be very happy. One nice thing so far...no fan noise over there!