Astro/Safari vs. 4runner?

[Andy]

Hi, I'm hoping someone with experience with both of these vehicles can provide some input on the merits of each. Here's the situation: I currently have a 2004 4Runner with the 4.7L V8 (full-time 4wd). Overall, I average around 17 mpg, more around-town driving but a decent amount of highway as well. Don't really drive with a lead foot- probably take it a little easier than most. I usually get around 20 mpg on long highway trips, again taking if fairly easy and not usually going above 70 mph. The 4Runner is awesome mechanically, it's a pleasure to drive, etc... but for how big of a vehicle it is (exterior dimensions), I'm a bit disappointed with the interior room and utility (despite the U in SUV). I do have the 3rd row seats, so 7 people can fit in the 4runner, albeit the rear two need to be very small people.

So... I'm starting to look seriously at a later-model Astro or Safari AWD. I realize I'll be losing a bit in the HP department, but that's okay. I know the interior volume is much larger, which is the main objective. However, I'm concerned that the gas mileage will be significantly less than the 4Runner, but the numbers seem to be all over the map, as far as what users on this board seem to get. I won't usually be hauling a lot of weight; just people and a bike or two, dogs, skis, whatever.

In your opinion, will I most likely experience a drop in mileage with an Astro? Being used to a mechanically somewhat-modern smooth V8 and 5-speed auto, is the Vortec V6 and 4-speed auto going to seem loud/clunky/whatever? I'll probably just keep the van stock- no lifts or larger tires, unless for some reason it wouldn't affect mpg.

Thanks for any input you can provide.

[ihatemybike]

The newer Astros in good mechanical condition should be able to match or better those MPG numbers.

Grumpy's fuel log as an example of what a lift, worn and beat van can achieve.
http://www.fuelly.com/driver/ihatemybike/astro

The 4.3L V6 is actually a fairly smooth engine with its peak torque low in the revs. The four speed auto is a good trans with its biggest gear jump being the 1st/2nd shift, it's usually not a harsh shift though. I like to add Transgo HD-2 transmission kits to firm up the shifting a bit and increase the lifespan of the trans.

[T.Low]

That is amazing fuel economy for a v8 4x4. So good, as a matter of fact, I'm skeptical. Don't take it personal.

FWIW, I owned a previous generation Tacoma 4x4, yes, very different vehicle, with the v6 5 spd, larger factory tires/wheels and got the same 16/gal I do with my lifted 4x4 Astro with 4:10 gears. Not the comparison you are looking for, I realize. The Tacoma was chinsey compared to the Astro, the newer 4Runner not so chinsey.

MUCH more Utility with the Astro.

It took me 30 years of mountain exploration, off road motorcycling, paddling, mountain biking, and road tripping in about a dozen different vehicles to learn that nothing beats the utility of the van configuration. I researched all of them, the E Series, the VW's, the Yota vans, the Delica's...the Astro fit my needs for utility, reliability, technology, comfort, modify-ability, off road-ability, and price.

It has returned much higher satisfaction than we ever expected. My wife now likes it just as much as I do.

[blacknome]

I think you will take a hit in the MPG ( the astro resembles a loaf of bread when it comes to aerodynamics although the 4runner is not much better ). According to the overhead in my van, over the last 5 + years of ownership ( 2003 AWD ) I average 13.5 MPG in the summer and 13 MPG in the winter with 95% of my driving in the city, mostly dragging around a couple hundred pounds of gear / deliveries. Highway I average 18-19mpg at 65mpg on the cruise control.

Another knock is the Astro wont hold its value against the 4Runner. To offset that, keeping an Astro for years is made easier in that the parts are both cheap and plentiful.
For my needs I would take the Astro over the 4runner any day because of its ability to move both bulky goods and passengers in comfort.

[LiftedAWDAstro]

You can't beat an Astro/Safari for the versatility and room. For what you can sell the 4Runner for, you can find a low mileage AWD Astro, throw a lift, larger tires, re-gear to 4.10's, go through all the maintenance/fluid changes, add an aux tranny cooler and either a Transgo HD-2 shift kit or a programmer to firm the shifting up. At this point, you'll still have a bunch of money left over for traveling.

You won't see the same mileage numbers as you do in the 4Runner. But I bet with your driving style, you'll see numbers close. You also may not like the handling compared to the 4Runner. Of course, with some good shocks. rear anti-sway bar and LT rated tires, it'll be closer. I have never driven a 4Runner so I can only assume it handles and drives very well down the road. These vans...not so well with mileage on them. You'll need to replace the steering parts and keep them in check to maintain handling. Again, with the money you have left from the sale of the 4Runner, you can rebuild the front end a few times!

You simply can't beat the room in these vans...haul 8 people, a dog or 2 on the floor and stuff in the rear is priceless.

[T.Low]

You simply can't beat the room in these vans...haul 8 people, a dog or 2 on the floor and stuff in the rear is priceless.

Yeah, I've hauled 7 people and their luggage; everyone was happy I had the van and had not camperized the interior (that's my excuse and I'm sticking with it. )

[Andy]

I really appreciate the responses. T.Low, I understand your skepticism. But, the Toyota V8 is fairly small (around 285 ci). Also, it was developed specifically to be used in Lexus models, so it is engineered to a little higher standard than average. I really don't drive the 4runner very hard at all, I keep around 45 psi in the tires, and the rear seats are usually removed, so there's some weight savings there. Of course, I'd treat an Astro the same way, so maybe I'd get a little better mpg than typical there as well.

So, for a bit more info, I do have prior experience with Astros, but this was 15-20 years ago, so I didn't have much of a basis by which to compare them at the time. My parents bought a new '94 Astro when I was in high school, and it seemed to have loads of power at the time... of course my daily driver was a '68 Squareback so it wasn't a fair comparison. But the Astro was a good vehicle, and they'd probably still have it if it had been AWD.

I really appreciate all the responses. I think I'm going to go test drive a couple this coming weekend, if I can find the time. Unfortunately, I don't own the 4runner outright- I've only had it for a year and a half and I'm still making payments, so although it does have great resale value, I'd basically just be paying off the loan if I sold it. But they are a desirable vehicle around here, so I'm sure I'd have no problem selling it myself or even doing some sort of a trade with a dealer for an Astro/Safari.

Any advice on what years to look for? 2003 and newer for larger brakes/etc., or does that not matter that much?

[ihatemybike]

Having had seven vans thus far, year really doesn't matter much, although the '95 was a little odd having the 2nd gen exterior paired with first generation interior and engine.

Obviously, find the newest/lowest mileage van you can afford. I like the 2003-5 models cause they come stock with 16" rims making the switch to LT tires easier and the six lug pattern is fairly easy to find different stock GM take offs to change the style of the van a bit. The 2003-5 vans also have rear disk brakes.

Check radiator core support where the reinforcements for body mounts are as this is a hidden rust area.

[Andy]

Okay, I found the van for me (see attachment).

Something tells me this might not meet my mpg goals. Would be pretty awesome to have it for trips though.

[ihatemybike]

Yeah, the Tiger MHs are cool. Had one parked in my driveway earlier this year, when a van dwelling buddy of mine stopped by.

Keep searching and you'll be able to find an AWD version. There have been a couple nice ones on the www.ExpeditonPortal.com forum.

[IT Astro]

Hey T. Low

I am considering upgrading my tires and suspension to be similar to your own. On account of your ride is so rad. But I am currently getting just under 20 mpg highway and 16-17 city, and I was wondering what mileage you might get with your set up.

thanks.

[T.Low]

15.5 - 16.5. I usually have lots of thule racks on, little bit of wind catcher with the pop top, and don't drive to maximize fuel efficiency, fwiw.

Did you get the Tiger?

[H2OJoe]

Hi Andy,
i have a 2002 Astro setup similar to T.Low's and, with 3.42 gears get 11-13.5mpg. I will change my gears to 4.10s as soon as I can afford it and expect to get mpg similar to his. I have been quoted $1650 by two different places to do the gear
swap. Much cheaper if you have the skills to do it yourself.
Cheers, Joe