Quest for the ultimate kayak/mountain bike shuttle rig

[T.Low]

Hello from the Pacific NorthWET. Been lurkin' round your website here for 6 -7 months, now its finally time to post something and say hello.

First off, let me say WOW!. You have quite a few talented individuals gathered here thru the magic of the internet, all sharing their ideas, expertise, experiences, concerns and laughs. The articles and photos are awesome. Your website has been a fantastic resource for me to research what will make my ultimate kayak/mountain bike shuttle rig. Not to mention fun as heck to read, too.

Secondly, I promise to never again post anything as long as this intro post is here. =D> If you dare read further, let me suggest that this is a good point to break and go get some Pepsi and Doritos for the remainder of the post. Consider yourself warned.


After kayaking and mountain biking, I've always been envious of my friends as they jump inside thier vans to change into dry clothes while out of the weather, not to mention sleeping in them during weekend river excursions. I've liked the idea of having a van for a long time now, but just couldn't part with my hot rod Dodge Dakota.

Then two years ago, the time finally came to trade in Fiancee's '88 beater Jeep Cherokee, but she wouldn't go van. We researched and shopped for months and finally found an '04 Nissan Murano. It is big and small all at the same time, it's fast and sporty, hauls her mountain bikes, kayaks, and girlfriends easily. The AWD works well for our hill in the winter as well as the mountains, the Bose system sounds great, and the leather is plush. (And now our neighbors who live further up the hill actually wave when I'm out armoralling the Toyo Proxy S/T's on the yuppie mobile instead of scowling at the beater Jeep with all the white water kayaks hanging around like they used to They're not bad people, they just don't get it).

Soon after that, it was time to trade in my company car for a new deal. I got to trade in the Merc Villager (wich I hid behind the back garage so I wouldn't have to look at it after work) and pick out my own new company car wich I would get to drive 24/7. So I said hello to a new '06 F-150 Crew Cab. But the Dakota was so much fun to drive, I still couldn't part with it...until this weekend.

http://seattle.craigslist.org/see/car/508701021.html

Think I'm finally ready to purchase.

Shuttle rig criteria: A gear junkies duffle bag on wheels.

The vast majority of the trips will be 10 minutes to my favorite mountain bike trailhead at Galbraith Mountain, to ride this trail and many others...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kFXTw9TU4Oo

and nearby kayak put-ins, both sea and white water

http://www.bellinghamwhitewater.org/

and we have a small downtown to hit for burgers or burritos and micro brews afterwards . All that being said, I'd rather not drive a behemoth full size van around on short trips and deal with downtown parking, when a smaller rig can do just as well on the longer trips too. I have moderate mechanical skills, not afraid of too much, but life is short and I can afford to have a shop do a certain amount of the work while I'm out ridin' or boatin'.

I've always liked the idea of the VW Westphalia Syncro 4x4, but never liked the realities of owning a VW. A bunch of them in town, lifted and set up well for the mountains. Wouldn't be bad for the local stuff, but many trips involve hours of freeway driving and climbing up and over the mounatin pass first, and the vehicle most likely to be found at the head of a freeway bottle neck traffic jamb is a VW Van doing about 54mph (37 on the mountain). Even though a few guys around have put WRX motors in them, with a project like that, I'll never have time to ride or paddle.
And the new Euro vans are incredibly expensive and have a bad reliability reputation.

http://www.subdriven.com/news/publish/F ... _339.shtml

There are a few Toyota 4x4 vans in town, including the Yotavan guru himself. Great guy. They are cool as hell, but I think too limited for my needs...maybe too small. Would be great for the local stuff, but again with the lack of a reasonable freeway speed. I simply need more power than that. And they were discontinued along time ago, so I can't see sinking $ into something that old and have parts availability issues etc.

http://www.yotavans.org/

Ultimately, I want a Sportsmoblie, but lack the hundy grand it takes to get one, really don't have quite the lifestyle to justify one, let alone get my money's worth out it. And again with the full size van thing for so many short trips. Love it, but not gonna happen.

http://www.sportsmobile.com/

So here we are with the last van standing: yes your beloved Astro vans.

Am I wrong? Is it the not the perfect van to use as a base to build the ultimate kayak/mountain bike shuttle rig?

I've been researching and am now looking to buy a low mileage (40k or less) '04 '05 AWD Astro to add 5" lift, tires, racks, K&N, cooling mods, blah blah etc (I love all your "mods" lists, and tech sections, and plan to feast on them for years to come, thanks again!).

My questions to you are just a few at this point.

How effective and reliable is the AWD system? I won't be doin any serious mountain goatin', mud boggin', baja'ing, or rootin', I just want to get in and out of the mountain passes and river access points in wet, geasey condtions, and be able to poach some camping off the loggin roads without a whole lot of worry. Should I really look at awd improvement sections you have on the site, or start with the stock system and let time and experience tell?

I've read that the Overland lift kits stiffen up the suspension more to peoples liking. My experience with lift kits suggest I would like that too. At 5 inches, does the van seem too top heavy or not too bad?

I've read that Chevy half ton truck wheels bolt right on to the Astros. I haven't researched too much in the way of Chevy truck wheels yet, but knowing how our Murano looks with the factory 18's, I think I'd like an 18' Chevy wheel. (don't want after market wheels, rather keep it in the family with Chevy if at all possible). Anyone know if there is any problems with that idea?

Well, thats who I am and what I'm doing here. Thanks to all who made it thru my ramble and thanks again for all the help I have already received from this site, and all I will see in the future (both directly and indirectly)

Now, back to the internet search for the van.
Thanks,

T.Low

[mdmead]

Welcome!

I doubt you'll find anyone on here telling you an Astro/Safari is a bad decision. Granted, they do have 'character flaws', but the overall drivetrain is pretty bulletproof and won't likely ever leave you stranded.

I'm not a fan of the newer 'electronic' transfer cases that are in the newer vans, but they seem to work OK for the most part. (I'm talking dependability and not functionality. They will definitely get you in and out of the kind of places you mentioned.) If you later decide you need more, a swap to a 2-speed case is easy enough.

Lifting these vans can be done in many ways, and you can avoid changes that will increase the harshness of the ride. (Basically use weld in blocks up front and fabricate lowered spring mounts and/or use lift blocks and extended shackles in the rear.) But I feel a bit of added stiffness, at least up front, would a be a positive thing.

I believe you are right on the wheel issue... The vans followed the half-ton 2wd trucks regarding wheel bolt patterns and I think the switch to six lug wheels match the current fullsize trucks too. I'm sure somebody here knows for sure though.

Again, welcome!

[astrozam]

Welcome to the site,great intro.

Your gonna find all the info needed to make your van fit your needs,lots of folks run lifts and run everything from backroad fire trails to rock-crawlin and boggin,there are several ways to outfit them for carrying canoes /kayaks etc, it really just depends what exactly you'd like,theres an astro for everyone.

btw, sweet M.B vid! =D>

[T.Low]

Thanks for the replies.

Nice additional site Mdmead. All good to know about the AWD system, it sounds quite adequate. I think I'll file that info away, see what my actual awd/4wd demands are, and time will tell. Meanwhile, I won't bother budgeting for a transfer case.

Your website answered a few other questions for me, like when the bolt patterns changed for wheel set ups, and regarding the 4 wheel disc brakes. And I have been planning on looking just for 04 or '05 (Looking for a "fresh" van with the latest technology available to divest my money into!), but your site says those years are simply carry overs from '03, so I can widen my pool to include low mileage '03's, thanks again.

I absolutely love the Dark Bronzemist color that 9dawgs has with his van. Also like the way his sits. Ultimately would like any of the colors that doesn't show the dirt from driving in the rain etc.

Time to call the "Used Car Factory" and special order my used van!

Thanks again,

T.Low

[WVKayaker]

I canoe, kayak, and Mtn Bike and can attest to the AWd capablities of my '99 Astro. And yes you can sleep in them and change your clothes in them. And big enuff to take a lot of stuff. Two canoes on the Roof, trailer hitch bike racks in the rear. What's not to like!

Canoes on top before the lift:


Hitch Mounted Bike Rack:


2" lift kit from Overland with Add-a-Leaf and BFG AT 235-15-75 tires


Plenty of wheel clearance with 2" lift and torsion bars cranked

[T.Low]

Nice pics. I just put a deposit on an '03 AWD. Pick it up next week. Been scouting the lift kits on Overland and in the "lift" forum of thie site. I think I would like to go up 4", and would like to lift it asap, and get wheels&tires. Need to get that squared away.

I miss paddling the Gauley and the New in WV. Gorgeous area with sweet white water and mountain biking. You are living right, my friend.

Thanks all.

[LiftedAWDAstro]

You will be very happy with the results when you lift it! Congrats on the purchase. If you have any questions on lifting your new AWD, just ask away.

[WVKayaker]

Did a whitewater rafting trip on the Gauley! 20 class V rapids....it was awesome!

[T.Low]

"You will be very happy with the results when you lift it! Congrats on the purchase. If you have any questions on lifting your new AWD, just ask away."


okay, you asked for it!
Seriously though, this forum is such a huge resource.

I think the first lifted Astro I saw was a green one on the internet. 4 or 5" lift with stock wheels. Dude even put a snow plow on it. I was stopped dead in my tracks, jaw dropped, I knew right then and there its exactly what I'd been looking for. Perfect height, perfect stance. Was that yours?

'03 AWD Astro. I want it to be a professional/factory type of deal as possible ( I'm always thinking of resale capabilities, old habit), as I am not the most talented fabricator and I have seen more than my share of cobbled together trucks over the years.

I am thinking of going with the Overland 4" lift, 18" GMC Acadia 5 spokes, (still researching Chevy truck 18" 5spoke alloys) 30-31" Toyo AT or MT or similar.

Before I contact Overland, are there any questions I want to make sure to ask them? What else will I need to add to their kit? Since I don't even own the van yet, I may miss something that is common knowledge for you guys.
Linkages, lines, arms, angles, anything?
Do you recommend the Rancho shocks? Any real benefit (other than the cool factor!) to dual shocks up front or is it not worth the hassle and $ or even feasible at all? I'll be drivin over the mountain pass highway often at speeds as high as comfortable. Not looking for real rock crawlin or baja-ing.

What is the key to keeping the rear axle centerred? The kit says it includes new shackles yet I read where you need the performance shackles to center the axle. Does the Overland kit standard shackles leave you with an off centered axle?

Will I need drive shaft work with the OVL 4" kit? (I want to be a little more educated before I talk to OLV, thanks).

I will be installing it with my brother in law who is a professional mechanic with a lift in his home garage. He is 1 1/2 hr from me, I want to start and finish completely in a weekend at his house. I don't want to take up too much of his time (or more apropriately, his WIFE'S time).

Any and all information from you guys is very appreciated. Also, let me know if there are any specific photos of the operation anyone wants me to take that haven't already been taken and posted.

I should take possession of the Astro next week.

Thanks,

T.Low

[LiftedAWDAstro]

"You will be very happy with the results when you lift it! Congrats on the purchase. If you have any questions on lifting your new AWD, just ask away."


okay, you asked for it!
Seriously though, this forum is such a huge resource.

I think the first lifted Astro I saw was a green one on the internet. 4 or 5" lift with stock wheels. Dude even put a snow plow on it. I was stopped dead in my tracks, jaw dropped, I knew right then and there its exactly what I'd been looking for. Perfect height, perfect stance. Was that yours?
Yeah, that was mine after the Overlands 5" lift. I ran a set of Cooper Discoverer A/T's in 30x 9.5R15 LT. The van was 4 years old when I did that lift and it made the plow much more useful as it didn't bottom out as much.

'03 AWD Astro. I want it to be a professional/factory type of deal as possible ( I'm always thinking of resale capabilities, old habit), as I am not the most talented fabricator and I have seen more than my share of cobbled together trucks over the years.
Stick with the Overlands kit and parts and you will have a factory looking monster van!

I am thinking of going with the Overland 4" lift, 18" GMC Acadia 5 spokes, (still researching Chevy truck 18" 5spoke alloys) 30-31" Toyo AT or MT or similar.
My wife has the Toyo Open Country A/T's and loves them. They are a little more noisy than the stock goodyears but that was expected. They handle awesome in the snow.

Before I contact Overland, are there any questions I want to make sure to ask them? What else will I need to add to their kit? Since I don't even own the van yet, I may miss something that is common knowledge for you guys.
Linkages, lines, arms, angles, anything?
Get the 4-5" lift, front bumper relocation brackets, and the performance spring hangers if the budget allows.

Do you recommend the Rancho shocks? Any real benefit (other than the cool factor!) to dual shocks up front or is it not worth the hassle and $ or even feasible at all? I'll be drivin over the mountain pass highway often at speeds as high as comfortable. Not looking for real rock crawlin or baja-ing.
The Rancho 5000 series shocks will be a major improvement over stock. If you want ultimate performance, look at a set of Bilsteins. You will also want to look into getting a rear anti-sway bar from Hellwig. This will improve lateral stability a LOT, especially in windy and twisty drives through the mountains.

What is the key to keeping the rear axle centerred? The kit says it includes new shackles yet I read where you need the performance shackles to center the axle. Does the Overland kit standard shackles leave you with an off centered axle?
To center the rear axle, you can use the performance spring hangers. These move the axle back about 1/2" to 3/4". They also will give you the ability to adjust the pinion angle on the rear end (in case of vibrations).

Will I need drive shaft work with the OVL 4" kit? (I want to be a little more educated before I talk to OLV, thanks).
You shouldn't need to modify the rear drive shaft.

I will be installing it with my brother in law who is a professional mechanic with a lift in his home garage. He is 1 1/2 hr from me, I want to start and finish completely in a weekend at his house. I don't want to take up too much of his time (or more apropriately, his WIFE'S time).
I had never done a lift before and we did it in my buddy's garage (no lift) in 13 hours total and we fabricated our own front bumper relocation brackets. That took a couple hours itself. First thing to do is take off the e-brake bracket. I skipped this step and kinked the e-brake cable, doh! Should have read the instructions thoroughly.

Any and all information from you guys is very appreciated. Also, let me know if there are any specific photos of the operation anyone wants me to take that haven't already been taken and posted.

I should take possession of the Astro next week.

Thanks,

T.Low

[BLAZER]

"
I think the first lifted Astro I saw was a green one on the internet. 4 or 5" lift with stock wheels. Dude even put a snow plow on it. I was stopped dead in my tracks, jaw dropped, I knew right then and there its exactly what I'd been looking for. Perfect height, perfect stance. Was that yours?

That's funny you say that cause when I started researching and found Dean's van in the gallery section, it made my decision to lift my van, I hadn't even bought it. Dean is the master of fabrication , he knows what is going on!

[dunedog]

T.Low,one of the important checks that doesn't get covered enough when doing a lift is the attention to the lines.
Especially the tranny oil lines coming out of the bottom of the radiator. #-o
Also be aware of steering linkage. Different years have different restrictions.

[T.Low]

That's funny you say that cause when I started researching and found Dean's van in the gallery section, it made my decision to lift my van, I hadn't even bought it. Dean is the master of fabrication , he knows what is going on![/quote]



Yours was the second one I saw that made me realize it wasn't just one nut job out there doing something cool that I probably wouldn't have the where-with-all to do, but rather people were actually doing this and I could do it too if I wanted.

Thanks big time for all the information. This will be a huge advantage for me come wrench time.

Yeah, I figured there has to be a line or linkage issue somewhere along the way. I'll look into that a little more or I'll just have to jump off that bridge when I get there.

Seems the Acadia/Outlook wheels have a unique bolt pattern. Couldn't find specs, but if what I've heard is true ('03 Astro will fit any 1/2 ton 6 lug chevy wheels) then the front runner at this point is the Avalanche 18". Yeah, I know, 'good luck finding those without breaking the bank', right.

http://www.chevrolet.com/pop/avalanche/ ... eel_en.jsp

I'll surf around the web site a little to see if I can find a picture of Lifted's significant other Astro with the Toyo's on it. Thanks again, all. May be able to call OVL this week. I'll keep ya posted, and I'll check back here often for any other tidbits.

[LiftedAWDAstro]

The wife does not have an Astro...she has the Toyo's on her 2005 TrailBlazer.

[T.Low]

put down a deposit, but still waiting.

While they were gone, they left the Astro at the neighbors house instead of their condo. Suppossed to return from California on the 7th, but late driving back due to west coast storms. Finally got back on the 10th. I'm very anxious.

So now I've got my Saturday all coordinated perfectly:

Astro is in Seattle, 1 1/2 hr away. Found exact wheels I want on craigslist in Seattle: 18" Chevy Z71 alloy with tires $400. Guy said he will hold them for me, no he doesn't need a deposit. I rent a 12' enclosed trailer to pick up Fiancee's purchase (new furniture) in Seattle. We will get to Seattle by 8am, get van. Wheel guy will meet us at furniture store, I'll gladly pay wheel guy and caress my new wheels until Fiancee gets furniture guys to load trailer (behind my F-150) then we are homeward bound. 1 1/2 our drive up the freeway, me watching my new van be driven by Fiancee, smiling big. Get home, she's off to a baby shower and I get to play with my new van all day. Will confirm order at Overland for lift kit and parts. Gonna hide it in the back yard from friends until it gets lifted. Will even park it on the back patio so I can see it out the sliding glass door while I watch the Red Wings beat Ottawa. A glorious Saturday, indeed. I love it when a plan comes together.

Email directions to furniture store to wheel guy. He emails me back; he sold the wheels. sorry sorry sorry he says.

Girl with van calls. Neighbors had to go to their island home to check storm damage. Parked their pickup right behind the van. Impossible to get van out until neighbors come home Sunday nite.

Tomorrow morning I get to pull an ugly ass Uhaul trailer behind my beautiful F-150 down to Seattle for 3 hrs round trip to pick up the wife's furniture.
C'mon Red Wings.