Is it a Camper...or a Cargo Van? New Build.

[playhard67]

I've put together a conceptual drawing showing a proposed Astro Van Camper layout. The dimensions aren't finalized yet, but the general layout is there. I think the layout is pretty basic. I'm still trying to work out how to convert the sofa into a bed. I'm trying to make it a "slide-out" bed that already has all the hinges attached (forming the sofa when slid inwards).

I apologize if the pics are too large. Not sure how to do this. If too big...can someone let me know how to size them correctly. Thank you.



The van will have a Penthouse. It is a 27" hightop by FGME which was found by ruecifer see

viewtopic.php?f=47&t=8072

The rear part of the penthouse will be a bunk bed. The front part of the penthouse will be cabinet storage. The center will be stand-up room while in the center of the van. It's not the most stylish option. But the price is right, and it's functional. It will allow for 3 to 4 people to camp in the van.



All components (kitchen, sofa/bed, wardrobe, storage) in the lower area will be modular and will be easily removed to allow for use of the van as a company cargo vehicle. The components will be utilitarian/plywood based and nothing fancy. Saving some bucks.

I'm confident in all of the above mods. What i'm not confident at all in - is the electrical components. I want to have at least one house battery...perhaps two house batteries? Has anyone done two house batteries? Anyway, i've read some threads on here and am beginning to get an idea of what to use. I think the consensus is a solenoid and not an isolator? The capabilities I want for the electrical system are:

1. being able to run a small microwave, and maybe a small TV, and computer using an invertor
2. I want to hook the car radio and maybe some lights to the house battery, but have it switchable to the starter battery (for when the van is used as a cargo van and no house battery is installed). So, some type of A/B switch?
3. being able to plug the van into a campsite electrical system. I will probably put a male RV style plug and access panel to the rear outside for the hookup. Should I set it up for 30amp or 15amp service?
4. when the van is plugged into a campsite electrical system to have the appliances run off this and not the house battery. When it is not plugged into electric, the appliances will run off the house battery/invertor. I guess there will need to be some type of fool-proof switch here as well?
5. when the van is plugged into electrical, it will charge the battery with a charger (is this possible with the invertor, etc)?

Is there some type of wiring diagrams that others have posted on here? I haven't been able to find any.

Thanks for your help, and i'll post pics of the build as it progresses.

here's an outside pic as it stands now.

[1Gary]

A yr and a haft ago I priced out a normal height conversion top vs using the normal height used one I have.For one thing the older one's seals are no longer available.The price quote I got installed was $4,000 from a friend's shop known for conversion vans here in Roch.

Not to rain on anyone's parade,but the price becomes real when it comes time to write the check for one.

[playhard67]

I called Steve at FGME and got a quote for the following:

http://www.fiberglassme.com/index.html

$800.00 for the 27" fiberglass top
$95.00 for the aluminum rail to attach top to van, and vinyl seal to dress up the rail.
$125.00 to put a Gel coat on the inside of the shell.

$1020.00 total, then $250 to $300 roundtrip for gas to get to NC and back to pick up the top.

I will cut out the existing roof, and install the fiberglass top myself. With incidentals, including gas, I should be able to install it for less than $1500.00

[MountainManJoe]

Everything you say is possible to do.

Adding a second house battery is easily done and can be as simple as placing it in parallel with the other.

You connect your alternator, starter, and any other critical systems to the starting battery.
Connect your "luxury" loads, including inverter to the house battery side.
The separator/solenoid goes in between them. Usually these come with basic wiring diagrams. So do inverters.

To run appliances from mains instead of battery, simply switch off the inverter. Inverters cannot charge batteries.
Current x Voltage = Power
15A x 120V = 1800W
If you need more power than that, go with 30A.

[1Gary]

Yes they come in all different thickness and are price accordingly.

A bit of advice that I learned taking off the used one I have.I suggest you do not just do the cutout with a saw-all.You need to maintain the roof bows just cutting the sheet medal first.Glue/seal the top to the roof.Then screw the channel/seal.Then cutout the roof bows from the inside last.You can lose the square of the van in a hurry and never get it back.

FYI





And there are wooden shims to stiffen the sides:



The seal I am speaking of is a channel with screws threw it and a rubber seal over the screws down the center with "V" cuts made into the sides to go around the front and rear to make it bend.







This is from the donor van and on the van it's going on it am not going to cut out as big on the sides to give me a place to run rope lighting hidden.

Bottom line is it is more involved than it looks,

[1Gary]

I might weld in Z or X bracing temporary to to be sure I hold it in place.

[1Gary]

Another option is to find one of these where you going to end up spending more for your conversion and still not have this which market value would be greater.All then you have to do is restore the inside.You get with them the same gas mileage which is normally in the range of 16 to 18 mpg.





The thing is all the hard stuff is done already.Just my two cents worth.

[playhard67]

Thanks 1Gary for your first hand experiences, advice and pics. I'll make sure I cut out the roof sheetmetal and weld in some bracing before I touch the bows.

Thanks also Timelessbeing for the 1800W total. I'll check the draw on the appliances and see what capacity I need while leaving a safety factor. Just off the top, I think a small microwave is approx 800W to 1000W by itself. So, it may be better to go with the 30amp. Should I install a different alternator that has a higher amp capacity to ensure I keep the house batteries charged without overworking the OE alternator? What guage wire should I use from the starter battery to the house batteries? I think I saw in another post that Herbie used jumper cables for this section. Seems to be a great inexpensive way to do this.

[LiftedAWDAstro]

For shore power and battery charging duties, put in a WFCO power center just like a regular camper. They automatically charge batteries and switch from shore power to battery operation seamlessly. All you would have to do is use the factory 12V power wire from the trailer harness to charge the battery when driving and wire up the interior lights and radio to the house battery.

[J Henry]

Unless you are really short or just want to sleep one person diagonally across the bed, only
option #3 will work. Are you going to strip the insides to the bare walls?

If you send me the interior dimensions you are working with I'll do you some 3d rendered
models and line drawings using Datacad.

I have a 1984 VW westfalia and really like the layout. You might look into
salvaging the bed and sink/stove unit from a junked vanagon Westfalia or buying the components off TheSamba.com.
The Westfalia bed converts to a seat during the day.


Good luck,
John

[playhard67]

Thanks for the link LiftedAWDAstro. Is that unit used as a stand alone, or do I still need a solenoid or isolator? When it comes to electrical I can install...but, not design systems.

Thanks for the offer J Henry. I saw your previous thread with your rendered drawings. Those are awesome, I might take you up on it. All the options in my first graphic are the same Van, just set up differently for eating, driving, and sleeping. Yes, I will be stripping the interior down to the metal, then I plan to put up plywood walls directly on the curved framing of the exterior walls. I want to try and maximize space, plus this will be the configuration when I use the van hauling for business and pleasure. I'm just going to fabricate my own modular components (sink, bed, etc) so I can design them to be easily removed. That is one thing i'm comfortable doing. But, I am heading to a local junkyard today and i'll look for a Westfalia and see if there is a sofa that I can look at to get ideas. Do you have pics of how your mechanism works? Is it already posted somewhere?

[MountainManJoe]

You should size your batteries to your offline needs (ie when stopped). Deep cycle batteries are measure in Amp-Hours. In principle, a 100Ah battery will provide 100 Amps for 1 hour, 50 Amps for 2 hours, 25 Amps for 4 hours, etc. In practice it will be a little bit less (Peukert effect). Also. the inverter is not 100% efficient. Using the same formula I mentioned, this yields: 100Ah x 12V = 1,200 or 1.2 kilowatt-hours. If you find that your stock alternator is unable to adequately charge your house battery bank between stops, then by all means install a larger/additional alternator.

The gauge of wire will depend on the length. Length increases resistance.

[1Gary]

I am all about projects.Hell I have been on one for god knows how many yrs and it has taken going threw three vans for me to get to the current situation.But for me the true question is how can I best advise this member?(You that is)I have for yrs too been passively looking for a Astro based Motor Home and have learned what the market value is.That is in reasonable shape starting at $5,000 to $7,000,medium shape $8,000 to $12,000 and I have seen in excellent shape sell for as much as $18,000 to $20,000.The key here is to buy it right,fix it and sell for atleast what you have in it when done.About 6 wks ago I saw one sell for $2,500 on Ebay and it killed me that I wasn't prepared to buy it and it was reasonable close to me too. ](*,) I would fix what it needs,use it,and unheard of might be able to sell it for a profit.The down side is they are not good for towing much more than a row boat and trailer.The reason why you don't see many is either people keep them for their excellent gas mileage and their age being junked already.

Bottom line is I suggest you hold off on the project to wait for the right deal on a Astro motor home.

BTW-the reason why I am not following my own advise is I have a barrel full of cash invested in my Ole Yellar project.If I am in a position to buy a Astro based M/H and got one,I would finish Ole Yellar and sell it off to apply it to the M/H.There is no way I would get back the lost on Ole Yellar,but atleast I would be in a much improved position.

[LiftedAWDAstro]

They are designed to be stand alone. What I would do if I was doing this project is instal LED lighting and a dedicated radio system to run off the house battery. That way you don't even need to mess with the van electrical except to put an over ride switch on the interior lighting when the slider door is open. For a radio, a cheap little boom box would provide music and you could look over the current (amperage) specs of one so you get as efficient a model as you can.

Off the house battery, run an inverter if you need/want to run a microwave or small fridge when not plugged into shore power. All you would have to do is keep an eye on the voltage level of the battery with a battery charge meter. When it gets low, plug into shore power or flip another switch on your dash to put power from the trailer connector power wire. You can wire that through a 40 amp relay. It would act just like you were charging a battery on your trailer while running. Put it on ignition power so if the van is off, and you forget to leave the switch on, you don't drain the starting battery.

[playhard67]

1Gary, thank you for your concern and advice. However, we are not interested in a motorhome. We already have the Astro and my wife and I are comfortable with camping in small quarters (we usually camp in a 3 person tent while traveling light on a motorcycle). We plan to use the Astro Van to camp in cooler weather.

Thanks Lifted. I saw that there is a local distributor/installer of the WFCO products. I'll stop by their shop and ask some questions.